UPHS Q&A

This page was last updated on July 3, 2024.

[Disclaimer: This information is presented as it was published at the time. Research is an ongoing activity, and in some cases additional research has found that a few (very few) answers in these Q&A columns has been found to be in error, or incomplete. The later issues in the 2005-2011 period tried to correct earlier errors.]

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The Questions & Answers column began with the second issue of The Streamliner, published by the Union Pacific Historical Society (Volume 1, Number 2, 1985), and continued through Volume 25, Number 3, Summer 2011.

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No Q&A column in Volume 1, Number 1

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Q&A By Don Smith

Questions & Answers by Don Smith

The Streamliner, Volume 1, Number 2, 1985

This column will be a regular part of The Streamliner. It provides a way for the members of the Society to share information about the railroad. I'm Don Smith and I've volunteered to coordinate the column. I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the Union Pacific so answers to questions generally must come from the membership. If you have even a partial answer to one or more of the questions appearing in the column or if you have a question, please forward them to me. At this time, I plan to publish all questions and answers received in The Streamliner.

To Society member Conrad Graikowski of Lawton, Oklahoma, goes the honor of having the first questions in the column. Also, I'd like to express y sincere thanks to Ken Longe of the Union Pacific Public Relations Department for his help with the answers.

Q1. How were UP CA-1 cabooses painted and lettered after the change to yellow paint?

A1. The following information was furnished by Ken Longe from the Union Pacific: Through 1947, Union Pacific's caboose cars were painted boxcar red and lettered in white. Beginning January 1948, when caboose cars were built or repainted, they were painted as follows:

• Body, sides and ends: Armour yellow
• Letters and numbers: Red stencil and striping
• Roof of both body and cupola including running boards and cupola handholds: Freight car red
• Underframe and trucks: Black
• Railings, handbrake, handholds (except cupola handhold), ladder rungs and styles: Red stencil and striping
• Platform and step treads: Maroon
• Wheels and axles: Unpainted

The George Cockle book CA-11 Cabooses has an excellent picture on page 6 of a side door CA-1 which the Union Pacific painted and lettered in the original yellow style. If this is followed as a guide for lettering placement, a model would be quite accurate. Looking at color slides of non-side door cabooses it appears that the words ''Union Pacific'' and the numbers were longitudinally centered between the body side windows rather than under the cupola. A check of available decals showed the following for the steam era small lettering: The decals in red and white which come with the Quality Craft CA-1 caboose kit have Roman style letters. The white portion of the decal would be correct for a pre-1938 caboose while the red decal is incorrect. Champ Decals offers set HC-195R, the small Gothic style lettering in red which is right for steam era cabooses in yellow paint. Champ also offers this decal as set HC-195 (with no suffix) in yellow which is not right.

I contacted Rich Meyer of Champ Decals to determine if he had some data which indicated that yellow lettering was used on cabooses. Mr. Meyer said that the yellow lettering had been in the decal line ever since he had acquired Champ Decals. The result of our discussion about UP decals is that Champ will offer set HC-195W which will be white lettering suitable for the 1938 to 1948 period. This addition to Champ's line should be available about April 1985. During our conversation Mr. Meyer said that he would be glad to upgrade other items in his decal line if they contain errors. Hopefully the UPHS can serve as a collection point for lettering data which can be made available both to members and to manufacturers.

Q2. Was the lettering on steam locomotives white or aluminum?

A2. Currently here is a partial answer. Readers are encouraged to send additional information. I have access to a UP locomotive painting and lettering diagram issued Feb. 4, 1915, and updated through July 19, 1921. This diagram shows that all locomotive lettering and numbers are aluminum leaf. The other UP locomotive lettering diagram I have is a copy of one issued Dec. 26, 1946, which covers two-tone grey passenger locomotives. It shows the use of Armour Yell ow paint for lettering and striping before June 2, 1949, and aluminum paint Silver Grey #95-7581 for lettering and striping after that date. If interested members will send a business size SASE to me, I'll enclose copies of the two sheets mentioned. This leaves the question of later freight locomotive lettering color open. It is impossible to distinguish between aluminum and white in black and white pictures and frequently impossible to tell in color slides. I have a small collection of color slides of UP engines which cover 1941 and then 1947 thru 1957. It appears to me that some of the engine pictures taken prior to 1950 show aluminum lettering but I'm not positive. My speculation is that aluminum was used prior to the major lettering changes which occurred between mid-1947 and 1948. Input from the membership is requested.

Q3. Oriental Limited has recently imported two versions of UP 57" driver Mikados (MacArthurs?) which they call "branch line" and "main line'' versions. I particularly question the mainline version with a non-lifting injector. UP engines used lifting injectors. What are the prototypes for these engines?

A3. I contacted Tony Wenzel of Oriental Limited about the question and was informed that the branch line engine was patterned after 1905. A good right-side picture of 1905 appears on page 46 of Ehernberger's Smoke Over the Divide. Photos from Stan Kistler of 1919 at Manhattan, Kansas in July 1949 and 1905 at Laramie, Wyoming October 2, 1954, are shown elsewhere in this column. I've seen one of the "main line" versions of the model and with a very few exceptions, notably tender trucks and headlight type, it appears very similar to the prototype photo. I think that what Oriental calls the "branch line" engine is a representation of an engine which has had its train number indicators removed and has been assigned full time to switching service. The model could easily be converted to a road service engine by the installation of number indicators.

Q4. Do the various railroads which made up the UP such as the O& WRN, OSL and LA&SL still exist as companies? Is any rolling stock still lettered for them?

A4. No mention of these corporations is made in the current UP Annual Report. Listing of freight cars with reporting marks of the companies disappeared from the Equipment Register sometime between 1969 and 1973.

Q5. When did the UP stop painting passenger cars green?

A5. Input from the membership is requested.

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Questions & Answers by Don Smith

The Streamliner, Volume 1, Number 3, 1985

A1. (Additional information.) In Issue #2 it was stated that UP cabooses were painted yellow starting in 1948. Richard Hendrickson has pointed out that there is a picture of a yellow caboose taken in November 1947 on page 78 of the book Railroading Through Cajon Pass. Also, I've seen an Al Chione slide of USRA Mike 2492 and a caboose taken at LaSalle, Colo. on March 14, 1947 with the caboose painted yellow.

Q6. What colors were UP stations painted?

A6. From the Harriman period into the 1940's the UP used the following Common Standard colors for wooden depots:

• Body, exterior-Colonial Yellow
• Trim, exterior-Light Brown
• Sash, exterior-Lamp Black

The information which I received from the UP about the station colors said that the color Colonial Yellow was approximated in the Pantone Matching System of standardized colors by PMS 142 while PMS 146 approximated Light Brown. PMS Color Books are available from most large graphic arts supply stores for about $12. I think that a better suggestion for matching UP colors would be to get on the mailing list for slide sets advertised in magazines. I find the UP pictures in these sets to be invaluable for so many references. For example, the backgrounds for several steam locomotives in recent sets have contained pictures of stations in the C.S. colors. The color of the UP stations during the yellow and brown period appears to be similar to the colors of Southern Pacific stations well into the 1970's. This is very possibly due to the Harriman era joint heritage of the Common Standards. The date when the railroad stopped painting stations yellow with brown trim is not precisely defined, however, it was prior to 1951 because there is a series of William Kratville pictures taken at Elkhorn, Nebraska in 1951 beside what appears to be a station painted light grey trimmed in white. There is another picture in Motive Power of the UP which shows.

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No Q&A column in Volume 1, Number 4

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Questions & Answers by Don Smith

The Streamliner, Volume 2, Number 1, 1986

A1. (Additional information.) The question concerning white or silver lettering on UP steam has some further clarification. UP switcher 4466 at the California State Railroad Museum has been restored. Mr. Stephen Drew, Curator of the Museum reported that, "When we worked down through the paint layers on the engine and tender all the underlying lettering and numbering was silver. We accordingly renumbered and relettered 4466 in silver. We are not saying this is applicable to ... UP engines overall." Thanks to Mr. Drew for the information. Based on my observation of 4466 at the Museum this summer the silver paint gives the impression of white paint with aluminum pigment in it. It appears more white than aluminum. For a model a white decal would be more representative than an aluminum one.

A4. (Additional information.) Thanks to Society member Gary Steffens for passing on the information that the 1984 UP report to the I.C.C. still lists the OSL, OWR&N, LA&SL, StJ&GI and Deschutes RR as leased lines and the Mt Hood, Yakima Valley and SI as 100% owned lines. Member Dan Smith forwarded a copy of the Union Pacific pages from Moody's Transportation Manual which also lists the subsidiary lines as still being separate entities.

Norm Metcalf has also researched Moody's Transportation Manual published by Moody's Investor's Service. The '84 manual listed the following holdings for the Union Pacific Railroad. (The Union Pacific Railroad, the Western Pacific Railroad and the Missouri Pacific Railroad are owned by the Union Pacific Corporation.) The present Union Pacific Railroad was formed by the merger of the Kansas Pacific and Denver Pacific and the old Union Pacific Railroad. The Union Pacific Railroad has, to quote Moody's, "an important interest" in the Illinois Central Gulf Railroad.

On January 1, 1936 the UP leased the Oregon Short Line, Oregon Washington Railway & Navigation, and Los Angeles and Salt Lake and holds purchase options on the director's shares of the OWR & N. At the same time, they leased the St. Joseph and Grand Island and they now own all but 546.8 shares. When they applied for control of the ST J & GI the Pacific and Idaho Northern and Laramie, North Park and Western intervened; the UP bought the P & IN and the LNP & W. The UP purchased, 24,946.4 of the 25,000 common shares of the LNP & W and the OSL bought 100% of the shares of the P & IN. The Saratoga and Encampment Valley was liquidated 7/31/51, and the LNP & N was liquidated 11/30/51. In 1958 control of the Spokane International was acquired and the UP has 99.94% of the stock. As of 12/31/78 the SI leased 10 locos, owned 9 covered hoppers, 71 flat cars, 1 derrick and 4 cabooses. As of 12/31/67, UP owned 50% of Portland Railway and Terminal Division jointly with the Southern Pacific. In 1968, the UP purchased the Mount Hood Railway.

Current control is as follows:

A9. John Rieschl reports that the two M of W diners shown in Issue 3 are the same car at different times. John reports the following chronology for the car: Originally coach 682 build in 1911; to coach 02468 in Nov. 1949; to diner 902468 in March 1959 and, finally to diner 904386 in June 1981. Currently a ballast car (class HK-70-1) is 902468.

Q10. In the early 1960's the UP painted 10 cabooses for service in the UP /CB&Q pool. The cars were painted silver with the roof of both the cupola and the body being freight car red, platforms and underbody being black and all grab irons, ladders, and lettering being red. What were the numbers of the cars so painted and how long did the special scheme last?

A10. A photo of two UP cabooses so painted appears on page 60 of the October 1985 Trains magazine. A call to David Ingles who had the original print, established that the number of the first caboose in the picture was 25402. Jim Seacrest, who took the picture, doesn't have any additional copies. Jim was able to confirm that the paint scheme was short lived and, based on his recollection, the roof was black instead of freight car red. Dave Seidel reports there were two others, 25418, and 25441. 25407 had a silver cupola with a large M on it. The silver cabooses were used on the CDGI, a CB&Q train from Chicago to Grand Island which interchanged with the UP at Grand Island. Apparently, the Q required that the cabooses be painted silver.

Q11. What are the mixing instructions using Scalecoat paint to produce UP paint color Leaf Brown?

A11. Leaf Brown is DuPont Dulux color 88-5651. I am unable to find mixing instructions for Scalecoat. As an alternative, I'd suggest that John W. Maxwell, 3220 Balsam St., Wheat Ridge, Colo. 80033, be contacted for his list of UP slides. The slides cover the period from 1941 to 1946 and include two excellent 1941 slides of streamlined 4-8-2 #7002 in brown, red and yellow. The color in the slide can serve as a basis for mixing and matching. For example, when one sees the slide, one will learn that 7002 had red driver tires.

Q12. What types of cars did the Union Pacific use for company coal service?

A12. I hope to do an article on UP drop bottom gondolas, hoppers and ballast hoppers. Any information or pictures of these cars would be appreciated. Based on available photos it appears that drop bottom gondolas and HK ballast hoppers were used to haul most company coal.

Q13. What are sources of Union Pacific pictures and slides?

A13. In addition to the Al Chione slides which I've mentioned before, Stan Kistler's excellent black and white photos and John Maxwell's slides, I'm sure there are many other sources from which members can purchase slides or black and white photos of the Union Pacific. Members are requested to send me any information they have about sources of pictures. I'll publish the compilation in a future issue.

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Questions & Answers by Don Smith

The Streamliner, Volume 2, Number 2, 1986

A9. (Continued) This follow-up to the PFE painting and lettering article in Streamliner 4 corrects some errors on my part and includes additional information supplied by Tony Thompson and Richard Hendrickson. Information about PFE and the means to model it are flourishing. Tony Thompson will soon have a series of articles about modeling PFE cars in RMC. Bruce Jones is writing a book length history of PFE due to be published near the end of 1986. The picture of R-30-9 98444 accompanying this article shows the car shortly after it was reconditioned and painted at Tucson in December 1950. The photo also gives a good hint of the location of AB brake equipment when it was added to the older cars. The photo of 98444 also shows a good view of first version of the paint scheme which incorporated the black and white UP herald but still retained periods after the initials PFE and lines above and below the reporting marks. Our correction to the original article is that the paint scheme with the UP herald was adopted in June 1950 rather than late 1949. The following is a chronological summary of the other corrections and additions to the original article courtesy primarily of Tony Thompson and Richard Hendrickson.

1909 — The original article reported dates of 1911 and 1917 for noticeable changes in PFE lettering after the original 1906 version. Instead, the major revision from the 1906 version occurred in May 1909. Tony provided a Xerox copy of a Pullman builders photo of R-30-5 7804 built about this time which shows that the 1909 revised lettering is basically the same as a 1920-built car. It should also be noted that flexible metal roofs were not adopted for PFE cars until 1920. I would again suggest that anyone interested in PFE send $5 to Phil DaCosta, 1154 W. 8th, #2, Medford, OR 97501 for his book covering PFE cars from 1906-1932.

1922 — First, a clarification of the table on page 35 of the original article. Metal roofs were black while wood roofs were red during the 1920's. With either a wood or metal roof the other wood pieces on the roof such as the roof walk, ice hatches and ice hatch platforms were red. Second, thanks to Tony for supplying a copy of the painting and lettering diagram for 1923-24 R-30-12's built by General American. This confirms that there was a period from 1922 to December 1925 when the left side of the cars was lettered much as it had been since 1909 while the SP or UP medallion and dimensional data were on the right side of the car in a form similar to the post-1925 scheme.

1936 — The original article said that the solid metal roofs of the first order of all steel cars built in 1936, the R-40-l0's were black. This was wrong. The roofs were painted freight car red as were the roofs of the 1941-built all-steel R-40-14's. During this time period the majority of reefers operated by PFE had wood sides and ends and flexible metal roofs. Tony Thompson's contention is that these roofs were also painted freight car red starting about 1936 and Tony has some data to support this position. Conversely, Richard Hendrickson has a color photo taken in the latter half of 1941 showing three cars with flexible metal roofs including car 90225 which was repainted in 1940. All three of the cars have black roofs. There is a consensus that flexible as well as solid roofs were being painted red by late 1941-1942.

1942 — In the original article I had suggested that PFE used unpainted galvanized solid metal roofs during WWII. Both Tony and Richard provided information to refute this. Charles Winters who provided the photograph of 98444 was a switchman for the Wabash in Kansas City starting in the 1940's. He passed on the information that as a switchman he used to assemble drags of 100 empty PFE reefers for delivery to the UP in Kansas City. Occasionally the drags instead would go to the Rock Island (presumably for delivery to the SP at Tucumcari, NM). This was true only for reefers with five-digit numbers. The 100,000's and 200,000's moved mixed in with regular UP freight cars. A picture of R-70-2 200,006 painted at Roseville in 1947 is included. The white card on the car side says that the car is loaded with its normal cargo of frozen produce. Mr. Winters advised that by the late 1940's the 100,000's were used principally to haul nursery stock. One last comment about PFE painting and lettering: The lead illustration for the original PFE article in The Streamliner was a Richard Steinheimer photo of R-30-9 92297 receiving its new black and white Union Pacific Railroad herald in 1950. An examination of the photo and comparison with other pictures in the article will show that the painter had forgotten to apply the SP herald and had located the UPR herald in the pre-1946 location. Undoubtedly done to confound a later generation of people researching the painting and lettering of PFE refrigerator cars.

Q15. A member has learned that Oriental Limited will import an N scale model of a 6200 class UP Consolidation during 1986. He says that he can't find a picture of a 6200-class engine in UP reference books and wonders what was the 6200 class?

A15. In 1954 the remaining 2-8-0's numbered in the 200, 300, and 500 series were renumbered by adding a 6 in front of their three-digit number. Thus, for example, 237 became 6237. This was done to clear the three-digit number blocks for the flood of GP-9's which were then arriving. There was a group of UP Consolidations originally numbered 6001-6085 which were LA&SL engines.

Q16. The UP has 50 Ortner Rapid Discharge hopper cars-numbers 34000-34049. A member in Nebraska says he's never seen them and wonders where they are used?

A16. Thanks to member and retired UP employee John Rieschl for the information that the Ortner hoppers are in two classes: H-100-15, Nos. 34000-34039 built in 1976 and H-100-25 Nos. 34040-34049 built in 1981. The cars are used in unit train coal service between Kemmerer and Green River, Wyo.

Q17. A member reports that he saw a company service tank car with a yellow dome and wonders what this signifies?

A17. Again, thanks to John Rieschl for the information that a yellow dome on company service tank cars signifies that the car is used to haul sludge from UP water treatment plants.

Q18. When did diesel locomotives used in the Northwestern District (Idaho, Oregon and Washington) have spark arrestors installed on them?

A18. Input from members is solicited to answer this question.

Q19. A member has an OWRR&N rear marker light equipped with one red and three yellow lenses. The time period of the light is unknown. His question is: Did the OWRR&N ever use marker lights with yellow lenses? UP rulebooks to which the member has access all state that rear marker lights show the colors red and green.

A19. Doug Hubert, a former UP telegrapher-agent on UP's Northwestern District passes on the information that the long time Northwestern District employees he's spoken to all remember rear marker lenses. Since the age of the light is unknown it is possible that 50-80 years ago, before the OWRR&N was consolidated into the UP System that yellow was used. Input from any member with a rulebook for the early time periods would be appreciated.

Q20. How were UP wrecking cranes painted?

A20. Page 68 of the May 1983 Mainline Modeler has a 1969 photo of UP crane 910003 taken at Kansas City, Kansas. The crane is painted silver. John Rieschl passes on the information that earlier cranes were painted black. Does anyone have the date that the change from black to silver was made?

Thanks again to Doug Hubert and John Rieschl for their help.

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No Q&A column in Volume 2, Number 3

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Questions & Answers by Don Smith

The Streamliner, Volume 2, Number 4, 1986

A-10 (continued). Further information about the aluminum painted cabooses has been supplied by members Mark Heinz and Ryan Ballard. Mark has photos of cabooses UP 25402, UP 25418 and 254441 in service while Ryan has a slide of UP 25402 taken in 1968, this helping to date the period of the aluminum painted cabooses. In all cases the photos show that the roof of the car is freight car red while the body and safety appliances such as ladders and grab irons are aluminum. The trucks and underframe are black.

A-11 Member Sid Dawson writes that he uses a mixture of 4 parts Scalecoat Roof Brown, 2 parts UP yellow and 1 part White to create the color Leaf Brown. He says that this is a warm, light yellow which is his recollection impression of Leaf Brown. More information will follow.

Q-21 A member is looking for a picture which shows the appearance of dynamometer car 210 in the 1954-1955 period. If someone has a picture, please forward it to me for publication. If you don't have a picture, a description of how it was painted during that period would also be helpful.

Q-22. A member asks what type or color of paint did the UP use on locomotive smoke boxes and fireboxes in the 1940's and 1950's. The member reports that he is currently using a Floquil mix consisting of 1-part RR108 Gun Metal, 2-parts RRl00 Old Silver and 3-parts RR 9 Grey Primer.

Q-23. Does anyone have a picture of data which shows the top color separation line of red between the grey and yellow of the tenders used with the 8500 hp. turbines? The writer is particularly interested in the location of the color separation on the ends of the tender.

Q-24. Did the Union Pacific have any problems with their Fairbanks-Morse Erie builts and how long did they last in service?

A-24. The UP had a total of 13 F-M Erie-built diesels. An A-B-A set built in December 1945, 2A's and 3B's built in 1947 and 4 more A units and 2 more B units built in 1948. All were regeared for freight service in 1955 and were scrapped in 1961 and 1962. If any UP employee has any recollections of the Fairbanks Morse diesels in service, if he'll forward them to me, I'll pass them along to the members including the question writer.

Question (Q25?): I have noticed some unusual 12,000-gallon Vanderbilt tenders. They are a different shape behind the fuel bunker, joining the water tank.

Answer (A-25?): These tenders are unlike most of the UP's 12,000-gallon Vanderbilt versions, they were found with some; 3500's, 3600's, 5000's, and 7000's. The main difference is that the tank does not curve inward under the rear slope sheet, instead it has a vertical outer skin and square corner behind the fuel bunker. They are similar to, but not the same as the 18,000-gallon tank sides.

Now, where did they come from? The answer is the American Locomotive Co., they were built by ALCo. between 1924 and 1926, coming to the UP with the following engines: 3645-3664, 8000, 8800-8808 & 7865-7869, for a total of 35. As listed, the first 21 were coal and the remainder were oil, the first 20 had Vulcan 4-wheel trucks and the other 15 were equipped with 6-wheel equalized trucks.

The following are excerpted from Locomotive Catechism by Robert Grimshaw, M.E; the thirtieth revised edition, printed in 1923, originally copyrighted in 1893.

Q. What is an injector?

A. An apparatus in which a jet (steam) condensed by water imparts to the latter its velocity, so that the final velocity of the combined steam and water is greater than that at which the water would issue from the boiler. This difference of energy in favor of the jet passing through the injector enables it to enter the boiler.

Q. What is a lifting injector?

A. One that will lift the water to the height of the combining-tube, from a source that is not under pressure.

Q. What is a non-lifting injector?

A. One which must have the water fed to it by gravity or under pressure, as from a water main. On a locomotive it must be placed below the level of the tender-tank bottom.

Q. What is one of the principal advantages of the injector over the pump?

A. That it heats the feedwater. (Which in turn saves boiler sheets.)

Q. Which heats the water the higher-lifting or non-lifting injectors?

A. Non-lifting. The heat of the steam cannot lift, heat, and force, all in maximum degree. When the lift is greater, either the heating or the pressure against which the apparatus can force, will be less; where the pressure against which the apparatus must force is greater, it cannot lift so high nor heat so much.

Q. What is the maximum temperature at which lifting injectors can deliver water in a boiler?

A. About 160 deg. F = about 71 deg. C.

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Questions & Answers by Don Smith

The Streamliner Q&As — Volume 3, Number 1

A20. In answer to the question, "How were UP wrecking cranes painted?" Thanks to member George Werkema for passing on the information that wrecking crane 910005 stationed in Las Vegas, Nevada was painted with an aluminum roof, forest green sides on the cabin, a white end ladder and a black frame and side sills in 1982. The hook itself was red. "Union Pacific" appeared in white block letters stacked on the side of the cabin just ahead of the door to the diesel engine. The UP shield appeared just under the window located at the middle of the cabin. The reporting marks UP910005 appeared on the side sill at the end of the crane opposite the pivot. A Bucyrus-Erie builder's plate is mounted on the boom to the rear of the boom pulleys.

Also, thanks to UPHS member Robert Hayes who sent 7 photos of wrecking cranes including UP900310 at Salt Lake City in June, 1986: UP903014 at Cheyenne, Wyoming in July, 1977 and UP910005 at Salt Lake in June, 1986. 910005 in the photo by Bob Hayes is painted similarly to the description by George Werkema except the rear of the crane is diagonally black and aluminum striped. Bob also sent a photo of steam derrick 903037 on display at Ogden, Utah in June 1986. This crane is painted all aluminum with black lettering as is his photo of in-service wrecker UP903046 at Cheyenne, Wyoming is 1985. Bob included in his group of photos shots of UP light service non-wrecking crane 903104 in aluminum paint at Omaha in June 1985 and Burro crane MW26 at East LA yard in August 1985, both in yellow paint. Member George R. Jones wrote about crane painting of numerous cranes.

It appears from the data supplied by these gentlemen that wrecking cranes were originally painted black with supporting equipment painted boxcar red if it was wooden. Later the paint colors for both wrecking equipment and supporting equipment was changed to aluminum. A new paint scheme like that described by Mr. Werkema was adopted in the later ‘70s. Anyone who has specific dates for the painting changes should forward them to the author so they can be included in an upcoming issue.

Q26. A member writes that he recently purchased a Key Imports "N" scale Challenger No. 3976 in the two-tone paint scheme. Looking through his reference material he says that he can find no information on the correct way the locomotive should be painted. He has Kratville's book, The Challenger Locomotive, which has some good black and white pictures, but these pictures do not show the sand domes, cylinders and tender. The member also says that the engine is available with either white or yellow striping and wonders which is correct.

A26. Both the member and I have the same reference material including Kratville's book which does have some excellent pictures. I sent the member a copy of the UP painting and lettering diagram for the 4-8-4s in two-tone grey paint because I would guess that they and the grey Challengers were painted similarly. The diagram shows that the striping was yellow until June 1949, at which time it was changed to silver grey. A copy of this diagram is still available to any member who sends me a SASE. An article on the grey Challengers is currently being prepared for The Streamliner.

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Questions & Answers by Don Smith

The Streamliner, Volume 3, Number 2 (1987)

A-12 (continued). In response to the question, "What types of cars did the Union Pacific use for company coal service?" several UP fans who trackside during the period that the railroad still hauled substantial amounts of coal for its own use were kind enough to reply. The gist of their answers was that there really was no one type of car used specifically for such service. The consensus was that such coal was hauled in drop bottom gondolas and in ballast hoppers. An impression of some of those responding was that as the steam era was ending, the ratio of hoppers to gondolas increased.

An analysis of the October 1950 and the January 1959 freight Railway Equipment Registers confirms this trend. These dates were examined because they cover a period from when steam locomotive usage, and consequently the need for company coal, was high to the time that the steam locomotive usage ended. As a practical matter these were also the dates of copies of the Register to which the writer had access. The back pages of the Registers include a description of car types. Of the types the Register specifically classifies as suitable for hauling coal which the Union Pacific owned were GRA and GS class gondolas and HM, HMA, HK and HT hoppers. In addition to cars lettered UP there were also Utah Coal Route GS type gondolas. Their cars are included because the Utah Coal Route was partially owned by the UP. That UCR cars were commonly in company service is illustrated by a photo of the UP Kansas City coaling station which is on page 75 of the June 1986 Model Railroader. Prominent in the foreground of the picture are two UCR drop-bottom gondolas being unloaded. Chard Walker's book, CAJON, has a color photograph on page 182 of a UP local near Summit Station which consists of ten GS gondolas and a single box car. The first and ninth gondolas in the train are UCR cars.

In using the data in the table, the author is making the assumption that the almost 2,000 HT type 70-ton hoppers which the railroad had during this period were used mostly or exclusively for commercial rather than coal company service. This assumption is based on looking at numerous photos of UP coaling stations in various publications and not seeing any shots which clearly showed these cars. The data shows that in 1950 the UP had available 5,250 drop bottom gondolas and 4,972 side dump hoppers. By 1959 the car in the majority had changed to the side dump hopper of which there were 5,284 while the number of drop bottom gondolas had decreased to 4,789.

I have not yet been able to acquire photos and data showing all of the classes of drop bottom gondolas. Illustrated are folio sheets detailing drop bottom gondolas classes G-50-11, 13 and 14. In 1959 these classes comprised 1,061 cars of the UP's 3,669 50-ton capacity drop bottom gondola fleet. Figures 2 through 4 show in-service views of these cars. As noted on the folio sheet, the G-50-11 class was originally built as a composite construction car during WWII and was rebuilt with steel sides in 1951. The photo shows the rebuilt car. The note on the folio sheet which mentions that 150 of the cars were rebuilt with solid steel floors and renumbered 67000-67149 was added post-1959.

Fig. 5 shows one of the Utah Coal Route cars. Hopefully some reader will be able to share his information about this company. An article about the Utah Railway which is owned in a partnership by UP and the United States Smelting, Refining and Mining Co. and over which the UCR gondolas operate appeared in the January 1956 TRAINS magazine. The article did not go into detail about the UP relationship with the line but did state that the majority of coal mined was used in Washington, Oregon and Idaho. The cars were painted black and with white lettering. It appears from photos the Fig. 5 shows the only lettering style that was used.

Folio sheets for the HK class side dump hoppers are also shown. There were five classes of the 50-ton cars and two classes of 70-tonners. Figures 6 through 10 show the five classes. Figures 8 and 10 make a point about these cars. Figure 8 shows an HK-50-4 loaded with sugar-beets while scrawled in chalk on the side of the HK-50-5 of Figure 10 is the note, "Gering Cinders." These cars were used not only for coal but for any other commodity which was not weather sensitive and could be unloaded by dumping. Figure 11 shows an interesting conversion of one of the HK-50-1 cars. It has a roof added and is stenciled that it is to be used for engine sand loading only and is assigned to Cheyenne, Wyo.

Figures 12 and 13 show the two classes of 70-ton capacity side dump cars. Kits for HO scale models of these cars have recently become available in the Model Diecasting line. Lastly, Figure 14 is included to show the HT class hoppers which were in the UP fleet during the period that substantial company coal was hauled.

The originator of the question also asked, "How were the cars lettered?" In general, lettering of these cars followed the normal practices of the Union Pacific. Interested persons are requested to review Richard Hendrickson's article about boxcar painting and lettering in Volume 1, No. 3 of The Streamliner for the date that lettering style was changed from Roman to Gothic and from white to yellow. Some observations which I've made while researching this question are: Apparently, no drop bottom gondola ever received any of the slogans. The same is true for the HK-50 series of hoppers. A painting and stenciling diagram for the HK-50 series dating from 1940 is shown. The HK-50-5 is not shown because it was not built until 1943. The hopper in Fig. 6 and a picture of an HK-50-4 shown on page 276 of Train Shed Cyclopedia #71 both show the class of the car as BA rather than HK. The BA stands for Ballast. The note in the upper right-hand corner of the lettering diagram gives the date of 9-11-43, when the classification was changed from BA to HK.

Obviously, this answer has just scratched the surface of information about UP open cars. Anyone who has additional photographs or information is requested to share it with the membership through this column or a separate article. Again, I would like to thank all those who provided information and a special thanks to Red Davis, Frank Peacock, Malcolm McCarter, Will Whittaker and Stan Kistler for the photographs.

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Questions & Answers by Don Smith

The Streamliner, Volume 3, Number 3, 1987

Q27. What is Magnafluxing?

A27. Magnafluxing is a process used to detect cracks and flaws in mechanical components. This process can only be used on ferrous metal parts. After a thorough cleaning, the part is placed into a magnetic field. While in the magnetic field a powder having satisfactory magnetic properties and of contrasting color is sprinkled over the part. The powder will gather in areas where there is local leakage, due to cracks or other irregularities. After the inspection is completed, parts without defect must be de-magnetized before being used. This process is most important for the identification of defects which could lead to hazardous and costly component failure. The source for the above is:

Mechanical Instructions, G-1

Gen'l Supt. MP&M

Omaha, Nebraska

July 1, 1947

Q28. What is the purpose for coating certain of the drive mechanism parts on steam locomotives with a white substance?

A28. This is a process known as the Whiting Test. Its purpose is to allow for detection of cracks. The Whiting Test, more easily accomplished than magnaflux, is begun by thoroughly cleaning the part prior to brushing on a coat of distillate (mineral spirits). After 10 minutes the part is wiped off with a rag. Next a coat of whiting mixture is brushed on and allowed to dry. After the whiting is completely dry on all surfaces, the part is vibrated by striking it with a soft face hammer or maul. Cracks will be indicated by dark lines of distillate penetrating through the whiting. The whiting mixture is made of: 1/2 pint of isopropyl alcohol, 1/2 pint water, and 1 pound of whiting. The source for the above is:

Mechanical Instructions, G-2

Gen'l Supt. MP&M

Omaha, Nebraska

July 1, 1947

No Q&A column, Volume 3, Number 4 (1987) to Volume 7, Number 4 (1992), 17 issues

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Q&A By John Carroll

Questions & Answers by John Carroll

The Streamliner, Volume 8, Number 1, 1992

Question numbering restarted from Q1

We are pleased to reinstate the "Question & Answer" feature which has been conspicuously absent from The Streamliner for the past several issues. As your new Q & A Editor, I am pleased to report a large backlog of questions that have accumulated since this column last appeared, so for those of you who have sent in questions during the past couple years, I only ask that you please be patient. We will endeavor to publish answers to each of your questions as soon as possible.

No one person is an expert on all matters concerning the Union Pacific, therefore, we must depend upon experts in particular fields to answer questions. Researching each question and communicating with the proper experts, of course, takes time. As a result, it may take a little while longer to get all your questions answered but be assured that we will do so.

I might mention that most of the questions we have on hand at the present concern UP passenger cars. This column, therefore, will reflect that fact. For those of you more interested in other aspects of UP history, be aware that the subjects covered by your questions determine the scope and makeup of this column — nothing more and nothing less. Therefore, if you want to read about subjects that are of interest to you, the best way to get the answers is to ask the questions yourself.

While the Union Pacific Historical Society is not a modeling organization, per se, we do have a large contingent of members who are modelers, as well, and it is to these members that the following matter is addressed: A well-known importer has asked that we survey our membership to determine what Union Pacific models we would most like to see brought to market. Although not strictly a Q & A topic, this is certainly a rare chance for our modeler members to make their desires known. If interested, please send me your "wish" list. I will keep score, then compile and publish the results of the survey in a future issue. One word of advice, please be as specific as possible in identifying the particular models you are interested in. As an example, if you want an FEF-1 with coal tender, identify it as such. At the same time, be aware that most importers are constantly seeking researchers who are capable of digging up the information and details necessary for a manufacturer to get a particular model produced. If any of you feel you would like to participate in such a project, send me a stamped, self-addressed envelope and I will forward the details to you.

Now to your questions:

Ql. Did the Pullman-Standard 6-6-4 "American" series sleepers built to Plan 4099 in 1942 for the Union Pacific have a general toilet with prism window located between the last bedroom and the first roomette, or did they have a linen closet in this location? If they were built with a general toilet, but were subsequently modified, when was this accomplished? Also, when were these cars de-skirted?

Al. The official UP diagram for the "American" series cars you describe, i.e., those built by Pullman-Standard in 1941, is reproduced below. In all, there were 119 of these lightweight sleeping cars built that year to Plan 4099 on Lot 6669, containing 6 Sections, 6 Roomettes, and 4 Double Bedrooms. Delivered in May and June of 1942, sixty of these cars were assigned to the Southern Pacific, Union Pacific and Chicago and Northwestern railroads for service on the Overland Route passenger trains, with additional cars going to other roads. In 1945, 42 of the cars passed to Union Pacific ownership, but remained leased to Pullman for operation and maintenance. All of these cars were originally built with a general toilet located on the bedroom side between Bedroom "D" and Roomette 1. A builder's photograph of "Cimarron Valley," one of the 6-6-4s built for Santa Fe service, clearly shows the prism window of the general toilet on the bedroom side of the car.

A careful reading of Pullman Standard Drawing 83-B-56, the Plan 4099 floor plan, reveals that the drawing was re-issued in late 1945 with a note specifying that the general toilet be converted to a clean linen locker. This drawing was re-issued again in early 1946 specifying that the window in the former general toilet location was to be removed. Union Pacific Diagram P-9-1 dated September 1, 1949, (previous page), shows all UP 6-6-4s with a clean linen locker in the former general toilet location. Actual modification of the cars, however, probably took place over the course of two to three years, as the cars were in service almost 100% of the time. The usual procedure in these cases was to perform such modifications before routine car repainting at one of the Pullman Campany's maintenance shops. The cars were probably de-skirted in the late 1940s and early 1950s, but no specific dates could be determined. If any readers have more exact information on the de-skirting of these cars, please let us know. Additional information we may receive from our readers on any of your questions will be published in future issues.

Q2. Were any of the lightweight 4 Compartment-4 Double Bedroom-2 Drawing Room cars built in 1941 for City of Los Angeles and City of San Francisco service ever assigned to the City of St. Louis? If so, were they painted two-tone gray? What were the car names and how long were they in COSL service?

A2. Cars Palos Verdes, Lakeside and Verdugo, built in 1941 as spares for the COLA and COSF strearnliners, were repainted in two-tone gray in 1946 and transferred to service on the City of St. Louis which was inaugurated June 2, 1946. There was one car in each COSL consist operating between St. Louis and Denver, with the third car protecting the service as a spare. These cars were lettered "CITY OF ST. LOUIS" on the letterboard while they operated in that train. Their COSL assignment, however, was short-lived, as they were soon replaced with "American" series 6-6-4s according to a COSL consist revision effective November 10, 1946.

Q3. Does William W. Kratville have any plans to re-publish his books "Union Pacific Equipment" or "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949"?

A3. No. These books were published by Kratville Publications. Kratville, himself, has not been associated with that firm since 1977 and no longer owns any materials associated with those books. Kratville's current books are published by Auto-Liner, Inc., of Omaha, Nebraska.

Q4. When they entered service in 1941, all the cars in the consist of the 9th train were painted with the name CITY OF LOS ANGELES on their letterboards. When, and over what period, were these cars re-painted to a generic format with UNION PACIFIC or PULLMAN on their letterboards?

A4. It appears that the existing "City" trains began to lose their individual identities sometime after 1947 when daily streamliner service was begun, with some cars retaining their original lettering into the early 1950s. At the same time, new passenger cars ordered in 1946 were lettered UNION PACIFIC or PULLMAN when delivered beginning in 1949.

Q5. Do drawings for the LaGrande, Oregon depot still exist? If so, where can copies be obtained?

A5. Yes, both plan and elevation drawings for the La Grande depot exist at Union Pacific headquarters in Omaha.

This column is designed as an open forum for the participation and benefit of ALL our readers. So, if you have answers to any of our questions or can provide information on subjects that appear in this column, please let me hear from you. Your input is openly solicited and will always be welcome.

I would like to thank Art Riordan and Bob Probst for their help in the preparation of this column.

No Q&A column, Volume 8, Number 2 (1992) to Volume 11, Number 3 (1997), 14 issues

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Questions & Answers by John Carroll

The Streamliner Volume 11, Number 4

Questions & Answers returns from hiatus with this issue.

Q.(Q-6?) When did the 7000-series 4-8-2 locomotives receive their shield-shaped number plates?

A.(A-6?) The shield type number plates were an outgrowth of the famous Jabelmann redesign period of Union Pacific motive power beginning in 1937 when the Research and Mechanical Standards Department was established. As far as is known, the first use of the shield was with the 7006 in 1929 as an experimental idea when that locomotive was fitted with Caprotti valve gear. Later the 7002 received a similar plate, and the 800-819 series FEF-1s were the first production run locomotives equipped with shields in 1937. A base casting pattern was made and individual numbers were applied by screws from the back side, thus more than one class of power could utilize the same shield with just the numbers being different.

Q.(Q-7?) I have need for information about the Union Pacific passenger car fleet such as car numbers, names, and car types and configurations, during the late 1940s and early 1950s.

A.(A-7?) These three books are suggested:

• "The Union Pacific Streamliners" by William W. Kratville and Harold E. Ranks. This excellent book is still in print and is available from most railroad bookstores.
• "Union Pacific Passenger Equipment" published by Harbor Mist Publications, P.O. Box 791, Columbus, Nebraska.
• "Historical Inventory of the Union Pacific Railroad, 1946" published by Intermountain Chapter, National Railway Historical Society, Suite 3 Denver Union Station, 1701 Wynkoop Street, Denver, Colorado 80202.

Perhaps our readers can help supply answers to the following questions:

Q.(Q-8?) On what dates did 800-series 4-8-4s get smoke lifters?

Q.(Q-9?) What 800-series 4-8-4s got Worthington feedwater heaters, and on what dates?

Q.(Q-10?) What "Little" 800s (800-819) got PT (centipede) tenders handed down from FEF-2 and FEF-3 classes? When?

Q.(Q-11?) What was the consist of the "City of San Francisco," Trains 101 and 102, just before the end of the Union Pacific/Chicago and Northwestern "agreement" in 1955? The individual consists of all five trainsets would be of interest if the information can be found.

Beginning with the next column, "Questions & Answers" will become a reader response forum similar to Q&A columns in other historical society magazines. We will depend on our readers to help out with answers to questions, drawing upon their personal knowledge of Union Pacific. We hope that sufficient interest and response will be shown by our members to continue "Questions & Answers" as a regular feature.

Thanks to Bill Kratville for help with this column

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Questions & Answers by John Carroll

The Streamliner Volume 12, Number 1 (1998)

A quite interesting collection of data has been received from Robert Rogers of Antioch, California in response to Questions Q7 [Q8], Q8 [Q9] and Q9 [Q10] concerning smoke lifters and Worthington feedwater heaters on 800-series 4-8-4's. His information is taken from published photographs and book notes. While this data is not yet corroborated by Union Pacific records, it is offered here in the interest of "smoking out" additional definitive information. Thanks, Bob, for your effort.

FEF-ls, road numbers 800 — 819 (all two-tone gray unless noted)

801 July 1949: Mars light, no smoke lifters

803 pre-1949: Mars light, no smoke lifters

805 March 9, 1946: Still in black paint

807 March 20, 1946; oil tender

809 May 8, 1946: First observed in gray paint

811 1947: Mars light, no smoke lifters

812 1947 -1948 period: Mars light, no smoke lifters

813 1948: Mars light, no smoke lifters

814 November 1947: Mars light, no smoke lifters

817 1953: Painted black; mars light and smoke lifters

819 August 1947: Mars light, no smoke lifters

FEF -2s, road numbers 820 — 834 (all two-tone gray unless noted)

820 September 1947: Mars light, no smoke lifters

821 June 1947: Mars light, no smoke lifters

822 1946: No smoke lifters (on Transcon)

823 May 1947: Mars light, no smoke lifters (on Pony Express)

826 June 1948: Mars light, no smoke lifters

829 October 1949: Mars light, no smoke lifters (on Wahn)

830 July 1948: Mars light, no smoke lifters (on Wahn)

830 pre — 1949: Mars light, no smoke lifters (on Wahn)

832 October 1946: No mars light, no smoke lifters (on Transcon)

833 June 1947: No mars light, no smoke lifters, yellow stripes

FEF-3's, road numbers 835 — 844 (all two-tone gray unless noted)

836 June 1946: No mars light, smoke lifters (on Transcon)

836 June, 1947: Mars light, smoke lifters

838 1945: Smoke lifters, still in black paint

838 June 1947: Mars light, smoke lifters (on Wahn)

839 1946: No mars light, smoke lifters, yellow stripes (on Los Angeles Limited)

840 February 1945: Smoke lifters, still in black paint

841 June 1947: Mars light, smoke lifters

842 September 1946 Mars light, smoke lifters

843 February 1949: Mars light, smoke lifters (on 2nd Wahn)

843 September 1947: Smoke lifters (on Los Angeles Limited)

844 September 1946: No mars light, smoke lifters, still in black paint

844 May 1947: No mars light, smoke lifters (on Pony Express)

844 November 1947: Mars light, smoke lifters

Apparent Pattern of Modifications:

about 1946 — two tone gray paint applied

about 1947 — Mars lights applied

about 1945 — Smoke lifters applied to FEF-3s

about 1949 — Smoke lifters applied to FEF — 2s

about 1950 — Smoke lifters applied to FEF -ls

Q11. During the 1950s and early 1960s a Union Pacific caboose often was seen in a Chicago and Northwestern freight train, running all the way through to Proviso Yard. The Union Pacific caboose was invariably located in front of the Chicago and North Wes tern Caboose on the train. Can anyone identify what service and train this UP caboose was in, and why it ran through to Proviso?

Q12. Where and how was the bell mounted on the Union Pacific's DD35 cab units? Did any of the DD35 "B" units have bells? If so, where?

Q13. What is the status of "Centennial" unit UP 6925 owned by Dakota Southern Railway?

Q14. What color were the dual strobe lights mounted on the cabs of "Centennial" units UP 6916 and UP 6918 during the mid-1970s?

Q15. Was double track, such as in Echo and Weber Canyons, reverse signaled in any fashion when semaphores were the standard signal devices?

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Questions & Answers by John Carroll

The Streamliner, Volume 12, Number 2, Spring 1998

Q 16. When were the slotted pilots replaced on the E6's and E7's?

Q 17. Did the OSL and OWR&N 3500 series "Bull Moose" articulateds retain their respective subsidiary initials on the cabs and rears of tenders until they were scrapped?

Q 18. Page 565 of Kratville and Ranks' Union Pacific Streamliners shows E7 unit 989 in a lettering scheme with the UP-CNW joint ownership "cigar band" on the nose, and standard UP lettering and numbers on the sides. When was this unit repainted with the UP shield and wings, and which UP shield was used?

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Questions & Answers by John Carroll

The Streamliner, Volume 12, Number 3, Summer 1998

Q 12. Where and how was the bell mounted on the UP's DD35 cab units? Did any of the DD35 "B"units have bells? If so, where? A 12. On the cab units, the bell is mounted behind the skirt just to the rear of the left front boarding steps. The "B" units had a bell mounted above the fuel tank near the center of the unit on the side of the battery box which faced the air reservoir immediately to the right of the battery box. The book Loco 1 — The Diesel published by Model Craftsman Publishing Corporation, Ramsey, New Jersey has photos of both UP 73B and SP 8401 showing the bell location. Thanks to Chester Leroy of Erie, Pennsylvania for this information.

Q 13. What is the status of "Centennial" unit UP 6925 owned by Dakota Southern Railway?

A 13. "Centennial" UP 6925 was not operational when it was purchased by the Dakota Southern Railway in April 1987, and never operated on that line. As of January 1998, the locomotive is stored west of the Chamberlain, South Dakota depot. The locomotive was purchased by Dakota Southern primarily as a source of parts for their SD7s and SD9s which had been upgraded with 645 power assemblies. A few years ago, the 645E3B engine blocks were sold to Morrison-Knudson. Today, the 6925 has no diesel engines or traction motors, but still has most of its electrical cabinets, main alternators and auxiliary generators, as well as a spare truck frame from UP 6906. Dakota Southern would entertain making the unit available on a shared-revenue basis to anyone who wants to rebuild it. Thanks to Brent Milota of Sacramento, California for furnishing a copy of a letter from Alex Huff, President of Dakota Southern, relating the status of 6925.

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No Q&A column in Volume 12, Number 4, Fall 1998

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No Q&A column in Volume 13, Number 1, Winter 1998

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From The Streamliner, Volume 13, Number 2, Spring 1999

(February 6, 1999)

"John Carroll passed away from spreading cancer February 6th. He was 68. For those who didn't know him, John was retired, living in Peoria, near Phoenix, Arizona, and was very active in the UPHS and other railroad endeavors. He was the author of several passenger car clinics and articles, including "The Challenger" article in the The Streamliner and he was Q&A Editor at The Streamliner as well. John's passion was Union Pacific passenger trains and he had done considerable research and design work for a complete set of UP and Pullman heavyweight decals before his illness."

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Q&A By Dick Harley and Bob Probst (Q300-Q400)

Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 13, Number 2, Spring 1999

Welcome back to the UPHS Question & Answer column. First, we would like to publicly express our sympathies to the family and friends of the previous Q&A Editor, John Carroll, who passed away on February 6, 1999. John contributed much to the UPHS and other railroading endeavors, and his smiling face will be sorely missed.

By way of introduction, we are both long-time members of the UPHS and have attended most of the conventions, so many of you probably know us. We were both on the committee for the 1994 Convention in Ontario, California. We live in Southern California (Dick in Laguna Beach and Bob in Redlands) but have traveled over most of the UP system. We both are modelers and historians and will cover both topics in this column. Historical accuracy is important to us, and we will do our best to deliver accurate information in the answers we publish. By teaming together to be co-editors, we expect to keep this column a regular feature for UPHS members.

Following the lead of the previous editors of this column, Don Smith and John Carroll, we will use all resources we can to bring you accurate and complete answers to your questions. We will publish all questions and invite you to send any question you may have. You are also invited to respond to any published question with information that will help with the correct answer. We have not received any backlog of questions from Streamliner editor,

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 13, Number 3, 1999

We are going to start this column by inviting more of you to participate in our column, both in asking questions and in sending us information for answers. While we did get some mail, we would like to encourage more of you to contact us.

To add some organization to our mission of providing answers, we are going to number all questions, so that the answers can be more easily connected with the questions. For lack of a simpler idea, we have decided to number all questions that went to Don Smith in the early years in the 100 series. Questions that were sent to John Carroll will be put in the 200 series. And we will start with the 300 series. We will be compiling a list of all former Questions and Answers, so that they may be more easily found. Whether that list gets put in The Streamliner, or The Second Section, or on the UPHS website, or somewhere else has not been determined. So let us know if you have a preference.

Questions from the previous column are:

Q300 — What's the history of the BC-70-6 boxcar that the Society modeled?

Q301 — What U.P. locomotives can be modeled with Athearn's new USRA 2-8-2?

Q302 — What was the caboose that was assigned to the Propane Turbine tests in 1953?

Q303 — When did passenger car trucks change from gray to aluminum paint?

We had fully expected to have some answers to the first two, but the desired drawings for the BC-70-6 were not found (help would be appreciated from the membership). And, while Bob has written an answer to Q301, Athearn has not yet released their USRA 2-8-2 at the time we are writing this column. We felt it would be wise to wait and see what they actually produce.

We did receive some questions from the membership. They are:

Q304 — What U.P. locomotives can be modeled with the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0?

Q305 — The second light fixture at the center top rear of Centipede tenders sometimes looks clear, sometimes red. Which was it and why?

Q306 — Did U.P. F3 diesels ever have diaphragms or back-up lights at the rear? If so, which units and when?

Q307 — How many R-110-21 cars (see last issue) does U.P. own?

Q308 — What's the current state of the Fuel Tenders?

Q309 — What paint schemes were applied to Rotary 900075, and when? (We may expand this to an article on MoW paint schemes.)

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 13, Number 4, Fall 1999

We've got lots of questions and answers this issue, so let's get to it. First, some new questions:

Q310 — A Health & Safety Committee member asks, when and how was the slogan "Safety First" used? Was U.P. the first railroad to use it? Input from U.P. employees would be greatly appreciated.

Q311 — Pictures in the Morning Sun Color Freight Car books prompted the question, which classes of U.P. freight cars were painted with orange sides? How long did that scheme last?

Q312 — What criteria was used to determine the orders for various styles of sleeper accommodations? Specifically, 4 double bedroom-4 compartment-2 drawing room versus 5 double bedroom-2 compartment-2 drawing room, and 16 duplex roomette-4 double bedroom versus 12 roomette-4 double bedroom.

Q313 — A reader is looking for specific consists for the Overland passenger train #27/28 between 1955 and 1956.

Now some answers:

A301 — The Athearn USRA 2-8-2 provides a good starting point for modeling UP locomotives 2480-2499 or OSL locomotives 2535-2554. A comprehensive article on the USRA Mikes by Gordon McCulloh appeared in The Streamliner, vol.1. number 4. At this writing, the Athearn model is not yet available for detailed review, but modification to include a Sweeny stack will probably be required to best represent both the UP and OSL locos as they existed in the 1940's and ‘50's. The OSL locos differed from the UP's, with OSL using straight walkways that continued to a point near the front of the smoke box, while UP walkways stepped down to a level just above the cylinders along the smoke box. Other changes included 12,000- and 18,000-gallon cylindrical tenders (12K on 2481, -82, -83 & -92; 18K on 2550 & 2552) and pilot snowplows on some locomotives.

A302 — CA-5 #3937 is the caboose coupled to Turbine #57 at the propane fueling station pictured in Tom Lee's Propane Turbine article in The Streamliner, vol.9, number 3. The fact that the caboose remains coupled to the locomotive at the fueling station, would indicate that it was "permanently" assigned for the test period. Readers, do any of you have photos of revenue service runs that can confirm 3937 (or a different #) in use?

A303 — While PL&N drawings have not yet been located, we have found builder's photos of the Pullman built Dome Chair cars taken in November 1958 with gray trucks. Photos of the 5007-5016 Lunch Counter Café Lounge cars delivered in April 1959 show aluminum (not silver) trucks. We would like to hear from anyone with PL&N drawings that show dates of this change. Note that this is quite a while after locomotives were changed to aluminum trucks, beginning in 1953 with Turbine #57.

A305 — Regarding the red/white tender lights, Bob Krieger told us that these lights actually have a mechanism inside them that can change the color. This was used when a loco was on the rear of a train, or running light, to display the appropriate color light to the rear (as determined by Railroad rules).

A308 — Reader, Mark Heinz, who was involved with the development of these fuel tenders wrote us: "As of early May 1999, all four tenders (UPT5-UPT8) were in storage at North Platte. In September 1998, they were removed from service pending upgrade of mechanical and electronic components. Concurrently, UP began evaluating requirements for a proposed ‘2nd generation' tender. To date, no decision has been made regarding the production of additional tenders or upgrade of the existing fleet. FYI...As of mid-year, tenders UPT 1 and UPT 2, built for the short-lived LNG road unit test program, were observed in storage at the General Motors Locomotive Group (EMD) facility in La Grange, IL." Thanks, Mark.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 14, Number 1, Winter 2000

Here are this issue's new questions:

Q314 — Information is sought about the Aluminum Coins dated 1934 with a M-10000 pictured. Also, about the 1939 San Francisco and 1940 Chicago Fair aluminum coins.

Q315 — A reader asks, what are good reference sources for finding information on UP Freight Train Consists in the period 1960-1985?

Q316 — We are looking for drawings and details of the Trucks used under UP steel cabooses in the 1940's and ‘50's. Are there any commercially available HO scale models of these trucks?

Now some answers:

Q301 — What UP locos can be modeled with Athearn's new USRA 2-8-2?

A301(added info) — Detailed review of Athearn's 2-8-2 confirms the basic answer provided in the last Q&A column. Other modifications needed include the addition of number boards and headlight replacement with a Pyle National type. Because the Athearn model has a spoked main driver, re-numbering is limited to the 13 UP or 12 OSL locomotives that did not receive disc main drivers (ref. The Streamliner, vol.1, #4). OSL engines will need the walkways modified. Athearn did select correct numbers (2495 & 2497) for their UP versions.

Q304 — What UP locos can be modeled with the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0?

A304 — The short answer is — none! The basic problem is that the model has 62-inch drivers, and the largest UP 2-8-0 drivers were 57 inches. While the 5-inch diameter difference doesn't seem like much, that difference and the driver spacing results in a driver wheelbase that is almost two feet too long. That, in turn, results in a locomotive that is longer, taller, and "fatter" than the typical UP 2-8-0. The model has a simplified version of Baker Valve Gear, which would be correct for four OSL locomotives; however, the cylinder configuration is correct only for locomotives with Walschaert Valve Gear. If a modeler was willing to accept all the dimensional differences, the valve gear hanger and link could be modified to resemble Walschaert gear, which were used on OSL 525-539 and OWR&N 718, 719 and 722. Other modifications to re-size the sand dome and relocate it and the bell would be required, as well as adding number boards and a third window on each side of the cab. Finally, the tender would need to be replaced with a 7,000 or 9,00 gallon cylindrical or a 9,000-gallon rectangular tender to get a locomotive that "resembled" one of the OSL or OWR&N locos.

Q310 — When and how was the slogan "Safety First" used?

A310 — Reader Robert Fryml sent in this answer and the accompanying photo, which answers part of this question. "Union Pacific, itself, did not originate the term ‘Safety First'. That credit should go to one of its predecessor roads, the Chicago & North Western. During the early 1980's, the C&NW began a caboose modernization program. Along the side of some of their cabooses they stenciled the phrase ‘We Originated SAFETY FIRST!' ." We would still like more info on when and how the slogan was used.

(Photo caption: C&NW caboose #11170 at South Morrill, NE. ca. 1985) (Virl Davis photo, J.L. Ehernberger collection)

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 14, Number 2, Spring 2000

Here are some new questions (and answers) for this issue:

Q317 — I am trying to find out about the whistles used on the U.P. big steam engines such as the 4000's, the 3900's, and the 800's. Who was the mfg. and were they single chime or multiple chime?

A317 — Steve Lee was kind enough to tell us, "The manufacturer was Manning, Maxwell & Moore, and they are 3-chamber whistles."

Q318 — I'm trying to find information about the AeroTrain — CITY OF LAS VEGAS. Specifically, when it was run and did UP have it before or after any other lines. (2 were made and shared between UP, NYC, PRR and Rock Island.) Near as I can determine, UP got one first and eventually it was sent to the PRR. A few PRR fans I know insist PRR got theirs first.

Q319 — Do you know the origin of the word "Armour" in the color name Armour Yellow?

Q320 — I am desperate for information of the type of steam locomotives that ran prior to the streamliners on the Kansas Pacific during the final days of steam. Also, information about the terminal in Ellis Kansas.

Q321 — Does anyone know what type of rolling stock was used in the 1940's to haul raw clay from clay pits in various Midwestern locations to brickyards in the St.Louis area?

A321 — Thanks to Internet correspondent Mike Brock, we learned: "Anything I've seen at my buddy's office at the Sandersville RR (major clay originating point in Georgia) during this period indicates it was in box cars or early small cube covered hoppers. Ed Kaminski, ACF Industries"

Now some answers to previous questions:

Q306 — Did U.P. F3 diesels ever have diaphragms or back-up lights at the rear? If so, which units and when?

A306 — So far, we have not found any photos of F3's with diaphragms, but the search continues.

Q310 — When and how was the slogan "Safety First" used?

A310 — In addition to what we wrote last issue, Erich Russ tells us that a 1974 C&NW booklet says," First industrial safety department, popularizing the slogan ‘Safety First' — 1910."

Q314 — Information is sought about the Aluminum Coins dated 1934 with a M-10000 pictured. Also, about the 1939 San Francisco and 1940 Chicago Fair aluminum coins.

A314 — We have received some info on this question but are still looking for more. We will also try to get a photo of these coins in next issue.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 14, Number 3, Summer 2000

Before getting to this issue's questions and answers, we'd like to discuss a related subject, which we'll call "Q&A columns in the emerging Internet Age". With the growth of the Internet and chat rooms and e-mail lists, a new kind of communication and expectation has evolved. The communication is fast, but often transient, and the expectation is "I want it NOW". There are now many places on the Internet/e-mail system to discuss things railroad, and there are several that focus specifically on the Union Pacific. In some ways, these make the asking and answering of questions in a quarterly magazine seem practically pre-historic. Yet, there are three things (at least) about these electronic arenas that are not favorable, in our opinion. First, the answers and facts fly with great abandon, with little checking to see if they are correct or not. The competition to be first with an answer has too often made correct answers of little concern. Second, the sometimes-large amount of additional idle discussion makes finding useful information very difficult. Third, these arenas currently serve a limited audience, and their information is quite transient. Now, we are not against these electronic forums and have in fact asked questions on them ourselves. But be aware that when you do, you may or may not get correct information.

Our purpose for this column is to give answers that are researched beforehand and printed in the historical record of the UPHS. They are available to all readers of this magazine and will continue to be available for a long time. And while we cannot give you an answer to a question within an hour of when you asked it, we hope you will continue to support this column with interesting questions and meaningful information to help answer the questions of others.

Now, here are some questions and answers for this issue:

Readers, we need your help on Q313 and Q315, restated below.

Q313 — Consists for the Overland passenger train #27/28 between 1955 and 1956.

Q315 — What are good reference sources for finding information on UP Freight Train Consists in the period 1960 — 1985?

The best sources for consist information are train conductor's logbooks, or notes and photos taken by individuals at trackside. Readers, if you have such information, please consider sharing it with others via The Streamliner. You can forward it to us for publication as part of the Q&A Column; or better yet, compile a Streamliner article of your own. The late Terry Metcalfe published several modeling articles using specific consist info in his "Union Pacific Modeler" books. As intended, those articles had a very definite modeling flavor; but they do show how a few pictures and diagrams can turn basic consist information into a very interesting article.

Q316 — Trucks used under UP steel cabooses in the 1940's and ‘50's. Are there any commercially available HO scale models of these trucks?

A316 — The article by Gary Binder in the last issue of The Streamliner covered this. We are still researching any available drawings.

Q318 — Information about the AeroTrain — CITY OF LAS VEGAS. Specifically, when it was run and did UP have it before or after any other lines. (2 were made and shared between UP, NYC, PRR and Rock Island.) Near as I can determine, UP got one first and eventually it was sent to the PRR. A few PRR fans I know insist PRR got theirs first.

A318 — Data in Don Strack's book "Diesels of the U.P., The Classic era — Vol.1" states that GM (EMD) built two trains. Number 1000 was on the PRR from when built in 1955 to 1957, and then went back to GM and then to the Rock Island. Number 1001 was built in early 1956 and toured the U.P. and the AT&SF in March. It then went to the New York Central. It returned to the U.P. in November 1956, lettered for the NYC. It was modified and painted in Omaha, and then put into service in December 1956 on The City of Las Vegas. It was returned to GM in September 1957, and eventually also went to the Rock Island. More detailed info on The City of Las Vegas is available in "The Union Pacific Streamliners" by Ranks and Kratville.

Readers, we also need your help on Q319, restated below.

Q319 — Do you know the origin of the word "Armour" in the color name Armour Yellow?

Q320 — I am desperate for information of the type of steam locomotives that ran prior to the streamliners on the Kansas Pacific during the final days of steam. Also, information about the terminal in Ellis, Kansas.

A320 — Probably the most comprehensive source of information on 1950's UP steam power in Kansas is Lloyd Stagner's book "Kansas Division Steam Finale" (out of print). The book basically covers the locomotives in service on a year-by-year basis from 1950 to 1956. Essentially all classes of UP steam except Challengers and Big Boys were used on the Kansas Division during that period. Many of the locomotives were OSL, OWR&N and LA&SL locos that had been displaced by diesels on those divisions. The book is nicely illustrated with good quality photos, and it provides assignment and location data for 12/31/49 and 12/31/55. For passenger equipment, the KC-Denver line hosted the Pony Express, COSL, and the unnamed 69/70. Members should note the presence of troop trains on this line (to and from Fort Riley in Manhattan, KS) during the Korean War. Ellis, KS is in the western half of the state. That portion of the state did not see any heavy-tonnage through freights, as all KC-Denver traffic at that time went via Marysville. As a result, 4-12-2's would not be seen on that part of the KS Division. As for information on the Ellis terminal, the book mentions a 14-stall brick roundhouse and 92-foot turntable. Does any reader have a track diagram and/or photos for Ellis in the 1950's? We would love to publish them with a future column. Kansas steam photos are also published in "Smoke Above the Plains" by Ehernberger and Gschwind (out of print) and "Union Pacific Steam in Color" from Morning Sun. Thanks to Jeff Aley for help with this answer.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 14, Number 4, Fall 2000

On to some new questions and answers for this issue:

Question Q311 prompted another question:

Q322 — What UP color is the Floquil model paint #110168 "U.P. Light Orange" supposed to be, and where did UP use it?

Several inquiries have asked questions like this:

Q323 — When and why did UP add, and then remove, the word "RAILROAD" to their shield logo (herald)?

A323 — The answer to this is found on UP's own corporate website. To summarize the information there, the word RAILROAD was added on Jan.1, 1950 to the new post-WW2 modernist style logo "to remove any doubt of what Union Pacific was." The lettering style was changed at the same time. Union Pacific Railroad became a subsidiary of the Union Pacific Corporation on Feb. 3, 1969. The new corporation decided it wanted one shield to represent the entire corporation, so on July 21, 1969, the word "RAILROAD" was removed from the shield. Since 1981, this shield has been restricted to represent only the railroad, but the word "RAILROAD" has not been put back into the top of the shield.

Q324 — The use of long, exposed piping on the roof of E-units was quite common. This piping was part of the pressurized air system and was sometimes referred to as "after coolers" for the air pumps. Some units, particularly the Alco FA/FB units, received these "after coolers" later in their carriers. What determined which units received these "after coolers"? Which units got them, and when were they applied?

Fred Soop of Cary, Illinois sent us this information in response to Q313 — Consists for the Overland passenger train #27/28 (San Francisco Overland) between 1955 and 1956. Thanks, Fred.

A313 — The answer is in the 7/56 Official Guide (unable to reproduce the table here).

We have had several responses to Q319 — Do you know the origin of the word "Armour" in the color name Armour Yellow? However, we have not found any written documentation yet.

A319 — The general agreement of all who responded is that this color came from the Armour Meat Packing company logo and/or reefers. We are still looking for documentation as to when, why, and who at UP picked this color.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 15, Number 1, Winter 2001

With the Holiday Season passed and Winter gripping most of the country, it's time to work on those research and modeling projects. Your participation in this column is what makes it work, so please feel free to send us your questions and/or info to answer published questions. Looking through the archives, we find a question that is still unanswered:

Q309 — What paint schemes were applied to Rotary 900075, and when? We would like to hear from anyone with Rotary or other MOW painting information.

Here are some answers to recent questions:

Q322 — What UP color is the Floquil model paint #110168 "U.P. Light Orange" supposed to be, and where did UP use it?

A322 — We have not heard directly from Floquil on this, nor have we found a bottle. However, we suspect it may be their idea of the orange used on RBL boxcars in the 1950's that where essentially copies of the then current PFE reefer paint scheme. Most accurate modelers agree that SP Daylight Orange is the correct color for post 1929 PFE paint schemes. We are looking for UP PL&N drawings to see if UP used the same color and what UP called it. Anyone else have an idea?

Q324 — Regarding the "after coolers" on the roof of carbody diesels. What determined which units received these "after coolers"? Which units got them, and when were they applied?

A324 — Steve Lee correctly pointed out that ALL locomotive air compressor systems have "after coolers" and that it is the external versus internal coolers on carbody diesels that we are researching here. Jim Booth, Jr. tells us: "External after coolers were added to locomotives that were generally assigned to the Northwest — primarily those equipped with steam generators. The reason being that the steam generator raised the temperature inside the car body beyond normal operation levels. The steam generator also required a tremendous amount of air, above and beyond the air required for the engine brakes and the train line, thus allowing hot/wet condensed air into the number two air reservoir which supplies the air to the loco and train brake system. The air compressor had a hard time keeping up with the demand, thus the air going into the #2 air reservoir was too hot, thus causing condensation in the air brake system. So, in order to cool the air to the proper temperature, northwestern railroads i.e.: GN, UP, SP, and Milwaukee, equipped their steam generator locomotives with external roof mounted after coolers (of different designs). This allowed the compressed air to be cooled outside the car body, giving the number one air reservoir the chance of collecting any condensation and allowing the #2 air reservoir to receive totally dry air for the air brake system." Thanks, Jimmy.

Now, some new questions and answers for this issue:

Q325 — I am attempting to model the 5816-5820 series of UP RPO's (St. Louis Car Co. 1960) with the AMB laserkit. What I am looking for is a drawing or close-up photograph, from above, of the vents on the roof of the car. I have plenty of 3/4 and side-on photos, but they don't help the modeling of the vent. An example is on page 422 of the book "The Union Pacific Streamliners" by Ranks and Kratville. I also have the book "UP RR Passenger Cars Volume 1 1950-1964" by GB Davies, which has excellent side and end photos for this series (and most others too), but no roof photos.

Q326 — I know that the CA-1 was UP's last design for wooden caboose cars, and that the CA-3 was the road's first design for steel caboose cars. Was there ever a CA-2 caboose?

A326 — Don Strack wrote us: "According to recent research, on the general arrangement drawing for the CA-1 caboose (drawing 246-C-2313) there is a small note that addresses the question:

‘For caboose class CA-2. The superstructure shown on this drawing should be used in connection with railroad company's design of underframe shown on drawing C-2738. Estimated service weight of caboose about 35250 lbs.' (This underframe drawing was later referred to as drawing 446-C-2738.)

This note about a CA-2 design dates from between 1924 and 1929 and means that the mysterious UP CA-2 caboose was simply a CA-1 car with an improved, all-steel underframe. While the original CA-1's had all-steel, riveted Bettendorf underframes, this improved underframe may have been fabricated by UP itself. Research has yet to turn up any evidence that any CA-2s were ever built in the 18-year period between the last CA-1 in 1924 and the first CA-3 in 1942. There were a couple experimental applications of plywood sheathing in the 1930's, and in 1937 a CA-1 was given a higher cupola located at one end. Still another car received steel sheathing in 1941, but none of these were CA-2's.

There is evidence that there were several replacement cabooses built during this same 18-year period. Meaning they were entirely new cars completed by the railroad's Albina Shops in Portland, Ore., which carried road numbers of caboose cars originally built before the 1914 date of the first CA-1, and which were very much CA-1's in their features. The concept of replacement cabooses has been documented on many western roads, and UP may have had some itself. These replacement cars may have been equipped with the updated steel underframe mentioned in the CA-2 note, however, there is also evidence that some of these replacement cabooses may have been classed as CA-1-2." Thanks, Don.

Q327 — What types of Pullman cars were operated on UP trains in the 1930's and early 1940's?

A327 — Data from the files of the late John Carroll provided the following:

John's files also contained the Names of all these cars and their train assignments, which we hope to publish in a following issue

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 15, Number 2, Spring 2001

As we start our third year writing this column, we would like to try something new — a sort of Reader Poll. The article about passenger car models in the last issue got us to thinking more about our searches for U.P. passenger train consist information. While we have accumulated a fair amount of consist information, we are sure much more exists. We would like to solicit the help of all readers in making this information more complete. We would like you to send us whatever U.P. passenger train consist information that you may have and/or have access. Please send what you have to us at one of the addresses below.

Now comes the Reader Poll part. Once we have organized all this consist information, how would you like to have this information made available to the UPHS membership and others? Some possibilities may be: a Society published book; a series of articles in The Streamliner; a Society published CDROM; on the Society web pages; a privately published book or CDROM; etc. Send us a postcard, e-mail, or FAX to one of the addresses below, and tell us your opinions.

While we're on the subject of passenger trains/cars, here are some Questions:

Q327 — What types of heavyweight Pullman cars were operated on UP trains in the 1930's and early 1940's?

A327 — Data from the files of the late John Carroll provided an extensive answer, which has been published as a separate article beginning on page 26 of this issue.

Q328 — When and why were the "fins" added to the roofs of the dome cars, and which cars received them? When and why were they removed, and which cars?

Q329 — I am looking for some information on a publication called the Arrowhead Magazine that the Union Pacific used to hand out on its trains. I am trying to find out when they started to publish it and when it ended. Any other information on it would also be helpful.

A329 — Our intrepid editor told us: "The Arrowhead magazine was the company magazine of the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad and was produced from about 1905 to 1932. Like SP's Sunset magazine, it featured literary material, poems, articles on railway development, etc., but it was primarily a real-estate sales promotional tool for Southern California land and development of the territory along the line to Salt Lake. Donald Duke has a very complete set, which I believe is going to the Huntington Library in San Marino when he is through with them." Thanks, John. This magazine is illustrated on page 36 of the book "The Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad" by John Signor.

We're still looking for an answer to:

Q325 — I am attempting to model the 5816-5820 series of UP RPO's (St. Louis Car Co. 1960) with the AMB laserkit. What I am looking for is a drawing or close-up photograph, from above, of the vents on the roof of the car. I have plenty of 3/4 and side-on photos, but they don't help the modeling of the vent. An example is on page 422 of the book "The Union Pacific Streamliners" by Ranks and Kratville. I also have the book "UP RR Passenger Cars Volume 1 1950-1964" by GB Davies, which has excellent side and end photos for this series (and most others too), but no roof photos.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 15, Number 3, Summer 2001

The mail bag has been pretty light the past months, which turned out to be good for those of you who had previously sent in questions that "fell between the cracks" when they arrived. The light input load gave us a chance to review all that's come to us since we took over this column. The filing system is much better now, so please keep sending us your questions. Also, we still need your help with previously published questions that have not been answered, and particularly with passenger train consists and our Reader Poll that was discussed last issue.

Now, here are some new questions for this issue. Reader input is welcomed:

Q330 — What were the Rules for use and the typical operation of the marker lights and fixed cupola/roof mounted lights on cabooses in the period 1930 to 1980?

Q331 — What was the color of MOW (Maintenance of Way) crew rolling stock (e.g. camp cars, boxcars, tool cars, gondolas, etc.) during the period 1930 to 1980 (especially the mid-1930s)? What was the numbering system for MOW equipment?

Q332 — In reviewing PL&N (Painting, Lettering & Numbering) drawings for E & F-units, all of the drawings seen so far (including 1966 revs of F-unit drawings and 1972 E-unit drawings) call out "Car End Painted To Match Side Of Car". However, it is clear from the photographic evidence that some (all?) of these units began to have their ends painted solid gray at least by the early 1960's. Does anyone have any documentation or data on which units received gray ends and when it started? We are also looking for documentation regarding any lettering on the ends.

Q333 — The cover of issue Vol.14, No.2 shows a 38-year-old tunnel portal between Albin and Tremain, Wyoming. It looks brand new — why is there no soot?

Occasionally, we get a question that reminds us that there are still people who are just beginning to learn about the Union Pacific. That's fine with us; we're here to answer easy as well as hard questions. Here's such a question:

Q334 — What do the letters and numbers mean in the "car class" designation on freight cars, such as BC-70-3?

A334 — This system of car classification started in the Harriman era (if not before), and was also used by SP, PFE and possibly other Harriman railroads. The letter(s) designates the general type of car. The most common are: A = Automobile, B = Boxcar, BC = Box Combination (doors — one sliding & one plug), BI = Box Insulated, BF = Box Flush (plug door), BA = BAllast hopper (replaced by HK), CA = CAboose, FU = FUrniture, F = Flatcar, FD = Flat Depressed center, G = Gondola, H = Hopper, HK = Hopper ballast (where did K come from?), CH = Covered Hopper, O = Oil (tankcar), ORE = Ore car, R = Refrigerator, and S = Stock. The center number is very roughly the cars' capacity in tons (lots of rounding is done). The CA (caboose) class did not have this number. The last number is a sequential series number for each type and capacity of car. Not all series were built, and some series were only one car. So, a BC-70-3 would be the third series of 70-ton capacity boxcars with combination doors.

Here's a question from the Don Smith era that never had a published answer:

Q335 — When did UP stop painting passenger cars green?

A335 — In March 1952, the Union Pacific announced that all passenger cars would be painted yellow and gray regardless of train assignment. The announcement spelled the end of not only the green (officially Dark Olive) paint scheme but also the attractive two-tone gray scheme as well. Since passenger cars were painted every two to three years, green cars would be quite rare after about 1955. Since many of the green cars were painted two-tone gray beginning in 1946, photos or individual car records would be needed to determine what paint scheme was used on any specific car during the period from 1946 thru 1955.

The Streamliner, Volume 15, Number 4, Fall 2001

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

Q336 — How were passenger trains crewed (engine crew & train crew) between Salt Lake City and Ogden in the period 1940 to 1970? Was SLC to Ogden a run or a lap-back? It seems the mileage is only thirty some miles, and both freight and passenger switching was performed at both terminals. Did they really have a thirty-mile district?

Q337 — How was the swing brakeman home-terminaled in Kelso, CA during WWII. Did they go up the hill on a freight train, get off at Cima (top of the Hill.) and return to Kelso on the helper engine? I grew up in Kelso and my father was in engine service on the helpers, but I waited too long to ask him this question.

Q338 — Where did UP get its locomotive fuel oil in the period 1940 to 1955? What types of tank cars were used to transport it? Were they mostly company cars, or were there many leased cars? How can they be modeled in HO?

Q339 — What were the dates for the removal of rooftop running boards (also known as roofwalks).

A339 — Don Strack sent this information: The federal government's requirement for rooftop running boards was withdrawn in April 1966, stating also that all cars built after October 1966 must not be equipped with running boards. The new ruling also stated that by the end of 1983, all cars built before 1966 must have their running boards removed. (Source: Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, Part 231, sections 1 and 27, also cited as 49 CFR 231.1 and 49 CFR 231.27) Thanks, Don. As a side note, while the federal documentation (and many modelers) calls these structures "roofwalks", the Master Car Builders' Cyclopedias and Union Pacific documents only use the term "running board".

And Jeff Aley sent us some info on a question from last issue:

Q330 — What were the Rules for use and the typical operation of the marker lights and fixed cupola/roof mounted lights on cabooses in the period 1930 to 1980?

A330 — Per "Operating Rules" by Union Pacific Railroad Company, Eastern and South-Central Districts and Idaho Division, Effective July 1, 1954:

"MARKERS AND REAR END LIGHTS — 19. The following signals must be displayed, one on each side of rear of train, as markers, to indicate the rear of train: By day, marker lamps lighted or unlighted; By night, marker lamps displaying green lights to front and side and red light to rear, except when train is clear of main track green lights must be displayed to front, side and rear.

"EXCEPTION: That part of this rule requiring markers to display green to rear when clear of main track does not apply in CTC territory.

"19 (A). At night, when train is turned out against current of traffic, it must display markers showing green lights to front and side, a green light to rear on side next to main track on which current of traffic is in the direction train is moving, and a red light to rear on the opposite side. When a branch or diverging line main track parallels a main track of a superior route, train occupying the branch or diverging line main track by night, when clear of superior route, must display markers showing green lights to front and side, a green light to rear on side next to main track of superior route, and a red light to rear on opposite side.

"EXCEPTION: Rule 19 (A) does not apply in CTC territory.

"19 (D). Where their use is authorized, markers displaying yellow instead of green lights may be used and must be respected the same as green lights."

In "Union Pacific Modeler, Vol. 2", on page 65, Terry Metcalfe stated, "Around 1970, most cabooses received marker lights mounted on the front and back of the cupola so that they would be visible over the taller freight cars of the era. Some cabooses, presumably those assigned to local service, never received the new style markers." Further investigation into a 1970-era rulebook would help explain the operation of the built-in markers. Thanks, Jeff. Does anyone out there have more information?

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 16, Number 1, Winter 2002

We are still seeking information to answer the operating questions in the last issue. So, we would really like to hear from you Railroad employees with operating knowledge and experience. Your participation is what makes this column work, so please send us even partial answers.

We did get some information on those questions:

Q336 — How were passenger trains crewed (engine crew & train crew) between Salt Lake City and Ogden in the period 1940 to 1970? Was SLC to Ogden a run or a lap-back? It seems the mileage is only thirty some miles, and both freight and passenger switching was performed at both terminals. Did they really have a thirty-mile district?

A336 — Les Clark sent us this: "The Salt Lake to Ogden run was a turn in the Utah Division, First Sub. This Subdivision runs from Salt Lake to McCammon, Idaho. In the 13 years I was in engine service out of Salt Lake, the crews on the transcontinental passenger trains were scheduled typically: Leave Salt Lake on No. 10 (City of St. Louis) at 7:35AM and arrive at Ogden 8:30AM. Then, they would return on No. 103 (City of LA) leaving Ogden at 7:15PM arriving Salt Lake at 8:00PM. Or leave Salt Lake on No. 104 (City of LA) at 8:15AM arr. Ogden 8:30AM and return on No. 9 (City St. Louis) leaving Ogden at 8:00PM arriving Salt Lake at 8:50PM.

"As you can see, there was a very long wait all day long in Ogden with this arrangement. Because of this, the regular crews supplied a van that stayed at the Ogden depot and was used to drive the 36 miles to the Salt Lake depot. Then about 5:00PM, both crews would meet at Salt Lake and van back to Ogden. As I recall, each person contributed a dollar for the round trip, and it was sure worth it to spend most of the day at home. Since the one-way mileage is 36.3, the round trip amounted to less than 100 Miles (the basic day back then) and thus paid 100 miles at passenger rate, which was the lowest rate.

"There was an Ogden freight pool, as well as a Pocatello pool, working north out of Salt Lake. The Ogden pool crews worked first into Ogden, first out. This usually amounted to no more than a couple of hours layover at Ogden. Since I left the Union Pacific in 1965, I can't vouch for current operations." Thanks very much, Les. Any other readers with experience in this area?

Q338 — Where did UP get its locomotive fuel oil in the period 1940 to 1955? What types of tank cars were used to transport it? Were they mostly company cars, or were there many leased cars? How can they be modeled?

A338 — While it's after the period in question, L.E. Crowner sent us this: "I hired out as a yard clerk on the UP and worked from Sept. 1955 until retirement in Sept. 1999. The whole time was spent in various jobs [in or near] East Yard in Los Angeles. The following is offered entirely from memory:

"U.P. company diesel oil came out of Rioco on the San Pedro Branch. I only remember company oil for Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Have no memory of how Colton/San Bernardino and Yermo were handled. It was loaded in UP 69000 [class O-50-6] and 70000 [class O-70-1] series tank cars. The cars seemed to be assigned by size, both series going to Los Angeles, the 69000 series only going to Las Vegas, if I remember correctly. The movement of company diesel oil continued until a pipeline reached Las Vegas. I have no memory of company oil after that, nor any memory of what year that was." Thanks very much, Mr. Crowner. Both series of cars have been done in brass in HO. Anyone out there with earlier experience, or on a different part of the UP system?

Here's another question we still need some help answering:

Q328 — When and why were the "fins" added to the roofs of the dome cars, and which cars received them? When and why were they removed, and which cars?

And now, some new questions for you:

Q340 — Which E-8/9's never received the fuel tank modifications that required new fill points that protruded from the car-body sides?

Q341 — What was the color of the interior of the UP roundhouses at North Platte, Cheyenne, Green River, Ogden, and Portland?

Q342 — When were the large, full length facia boards removed from the S-40-1 (and —2 & -3) stock cars?

Questions & by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 16, Number 2, Spring 2002

We did get some more information from reader Art Francis about Q338 — Where did UP get its locomotive fuel oil in the period 1940 to 1955?

A338 — "I recall as a kid at Kelso, California in the final years (from the very early 50's) fuel came in from Las Vegas in those large roller-bearing tanks [class O-70-1, built 1954-55] until the power plant was shut down in about 1960-61. At Kelso, the old steam engine boiler wash tank was used as a diesel fuel tank. When a car came in, it was spotted on the old sand house track and unloaded into the ground tank. When working between Las Vegas and Yermo on freight in the early 1960's, I don't remember fuel coming from California [to Las Vegas] in the pipeline being backhauled to Yermo." Thanks, Art. Does anyone else have information about company oil on the other parts of the UP System?

Here's a partial answer to an old question:

Q311 — Pictures in the Morning Sun Color Freight Car books prompted the question, which classes of U.P. freight cars were painted with orange sides? How long did that scheme last?

A311 — According to PL&N drawings, the following classes of UP cars where painted orange when new (1955 to 1960): BI-50-1 (was B-50-45), BI-50-2, BI-50-3, BI-50-5 and BI-70-1. They were numbered 499000 to 499749. These were insulated boxcars, and this orange scheme was essentially identical to the paint scheme being applied to new PFE reefers at the time. The drawings and photographs indicate that these cars received at least three different lettering schemes (including BSSUP and Automated Rail Way), and they carried their orange paint at least until 1970. A photo shows that by the mid-1970's a car had been painted Yellow with the "We can handle it" slogan. More research is needed to verify this information. Readers with knowledge or photos of these cars are invited to send it to us at one of the places listed below.

And now for some new questions and answers:

Q343 — Looking for photos or drawings of the details (including radiators) on the roof of EMD E3 passenger units.

Q344 — What year did UP install the winterization hatches on the F3/F7's? And were they a "permanent" installation, or removed seasonally?

Q345 — Is there a commercial HO model of a UP Train Order Board?

Q346 — When did Union Pacific change the "O" and "C" on steam locomotive tender lettering from a circular shape to an oval shape?

A346 — On June 11, 1956, Revision B to UP drawing 996-CA-24999 (13-1/2" Letters) documented the change to an oval shape. The change may not have been implemented on very many locomotives (if any), since 1956 was near the end of the steam era. Careful review of many steam locomotive photos shows that circular "O"s were still present in late 1958. Since most of the photos are ¾ views, it is difficult to conclusively determine the shape of the "O"s. In most photos they appear to be oval because of the view angle. When viewed under magnification however, a circular "O" will be seen as wider than the adjacent "N". Readers are encouraged to tell us about any oval "O"s that they know of on UP steam locos. Research on this subject is continuing. Since most steam locomotive model decals have an oval "O", the implication is that most UP steam locomotive models are lettered incorrectly! Microscale is aware of this issue. Please tell us of other decal manufacturers that should be notified.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 16, Number 3, Summer 2002

As a follow-up to Q346 (oval O's on steam locos) we were asked:

Q347 — When did Union Pacific change the "O" and "C" on diesel locomotive lettering from a circular shape to an oval shape?

Q348 — I noted in the Fall 2001 issue the UP Trackside photo of the two ex-SP business cars on Amtrak #14. I would like to see a current roster of the Excursion and Business car fleet of the UP. I would like to know the heritage of each and current storage location.

A348 — Union Pacific's own website has an extensive listing and history of 47 cars in the Heritage Passenger Car Fleet. The operations for the Heritage Fleet have moved from Fox Park and the demolished Omaha Car Shops to their new quarters on G Street in Council Bluffs. A 1993 listing of these cars appears on the UPHS website.

Q349 — What did the interior of the CA-1 caboose look like?

A349 — The interior of the CA-1 is shown on the General Design drawing for those cars, 246-C-2313. That drawing was included in the new book "Cabooses of the Union Pacific RR" by Don Strack and Jim Ehernberger.

Q350 — What color were the cabs of U.P. EMD F-units painted?

A350 — According to PL&N drawing 357-ST-4542, rev. G, May 17, 1966, the cab interior and engine room of F-units were painted Suede Gray Enamel. There is no indication on the drawing that the color had changed between 1966 and the original drawing date of 1947.

Q351 — Did the standard for the color "Armour Yellow" change over time?

A351 — As with most questions regarding color, the answer is subjective. Extensive review at the U.P. Museum in Omaha of the Color Drift Control cards dated from 1950 to the mid-1980's shows some, though minor, variation. It is our guess that this variation is the normal variation in paint chips of different ages and paint batches. It is not uncommon to see U.P. diesels in a yard, or elsewhere, with quite different shades of Armour Yellow. That is due to the various chemistries uses to make the paint and to the different ways those paints age. With the removal of lead from paint in the 1970's, stable yellows became much harder to produce. To the best of our knowledge, UP's standard for Armour Yellow has not officially changed over the years. The 1950-51 version of UP's painting standard C.S.22 lists four varieties of Armour Yellow: No.35 Exterior Armour Yellow Freight Car Enamel, No.39 Armour Yellow Passenger Car Primer, No.181 Armour Yellow (standard diesel paint), and No.186 Armour Yellow Stencil Paste. Readers with more information are urged to contact us.

Q352 — I would like to briefly ask if any members or experts in the UPHS have any statistical data on the train and tonnage densities of interchange with the SP at Ogden, CB&Q (later BN) at Grand Island, and the MILW, RI, and CNW in the Omaha area. The time frame I'm interested in is 1950-1980. Also, I would be interested in the number of carloads interchanged with these same railroads during that time frame.

Reader Art Francis sent us this information regarding Q337 (operations at Kelso, CA during WWII).

A337 — "During World War II, I believe that regular local freight was operated between Yermo and Kelso, CA, and between Las Vegas, NV and Kelso, CA. I don't know if Kelso was the home terminal for these locals, or if it was the away from home turnaround terminal. At the time, Kaiser was operating an iron ore mine, and this material was shipped from Kelso to Kaiser's Fontana, CA mill. The local between Yermo and Kelso most likely handled this ore traffic. Does anyone have any information on these locals?" Thanks for your help, Art.

The Streamliner, Volume 16, Number 4, Fall 2002

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

Q303 — When did passenger car trucks change from gray to aluminum paint?

A303 — A letter was found that is from D.S. Neuhart to the UP system shops. It states the following: "In the future whenever passenger equipment is shopped or trucks are removed from cars for any other purpose, present paint [gray] should be completely removed and trucks repainted with one coat of Chromate Primer CS-22 No.38 followed by two coats of aluminum paint CS-22 No.26." The letter is dated June 18, 1958. Apparently not in time to change the Pullman built Dome Coaches delivered with gray trucks in late 1958. It is believed that it took a few years before all passenger cars had aluminum trucks.

Similar documentation was found for making the change from gray to aluminum paint on diesel and turbine trucks. The earliest was dated March 29, 1955. Photos do indicate that some turbines were changed to aluminum before that date. Again, the transition to aluminum painted trucks on all diesels took a few years.

Q347 — When did Union Pacific change the "O" and "C" on diesel locomotive lettering from a circular shape to an oval shape?

A347 — Drawing 355-ST-7522 first dated 3-19-59 documents the 8" letters ‘UNION PACIFIC' that would be applied to diesel noses. This lettering has oval "O" and "C". Also, drawing 355-ST-7785 dated 7-10-61 is titled: 11" Compressed "C" and "O". That drawing modified the previously used 11" lettering from drawing 994-CA-25325. Research continues of photos and other drawings to document this subject.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 17, Number 1, Winter 2003

We are still seeking information to answer the following question from a past issue. So, we would really like to hear from anyone with this type of interchange data. Your participation is what makes this column work, so please send us even partial answers.

Q352 — I would like to briefly ask if any members or experts in the UPHS have any statistical data on the train and tonnage densities of interchange with the SP at Ogden, CB&Q (later BN) at Grand Island, and the MILW, RI, and CNW in the Omaha area. The time frame I'm interested in is 1950-1980. Also, I would be interested in the number of carloads interchanged with these same railroads during that time frame.

Here are some more questions we still need some help answering:

Q328 — When and why were the "fins" added to the roofs of the dome passenger cars, and which cars received them? When and why were they removed, and which cars?

Q340 — Which E-8/9's never received the fuel tank modifications that required new fill points that protruded from the car-body sides? A partial answer or photo reference would help here.

Q342 — When were the large, full length facia boards removed from the S-40-1 (and —2 & -3) stock cars?

And now, some new questions for you:

Q353 — When did the U.P. start painting their derail switch targets purple with a white "D"? Was the "D" painted on both sides of the target?

A353 — Thanks to Warren Johnson for sending us a partial answer: "I don't know when they started painting them purple, but the ones in the Salt Lake yard had the white D painted on both sides. That way you could tell it was set, by looking from either direction." Anyone out there have a date for this change?

Q354 — A reader asks about the recently released Marklin/Trix rolling stock: Saw their 40' AAR boxcars at a train show this past weekend. One of the cars has the "Be Specific, Ship Union Pacific" slogan in yellow lettering on the sides but also has the Union Pacific Overland herald -- also in yellow on each side by the slogan. I've never seen a box car with the Overland herald and wonder if this is a correct lettering scheme or "artistic liberty" taken by Trix.

A354 — While we cannot say whether the particular car that Marklin/Trix has modeled is correct, UP did apply the Overland medallion (UP apparently did not use the term "herald") in yellow to a few boxcars in 1954. The paint scheme had the BSSUP slogan on both sides and 10-inch Union Pacific lettering. The PL&N drawing for this scheme is 303-C-9565, rev. A, dated 8-2-54. The speculated reason for this scheme is that it was a way for UP to preserve their legal rights to the Overland medallion, which had not been the official logo of UP since 1941. Photos of a class B-50-39 and a class B-50-40 boxcar with this scheme (both painted in Omaha in August 1954) are shown in the book Union Pacific Freight Cars 1936-51, by Terry Metcalfe. While we suspect specific records were kept as to which cars received this scheme and when, we have not yet located such records. Absent such records, photos are the only way to document which cars were painted with the Overland medallion. Readers with other photo references to cars with this scheme are encouraged to contact us. In general, the UP shield medallion was not a part of UP freight car paint schemes until the early 1960's, though it had been used for many years before that on Pacific Fruit Express refrigerator cars.

Q355 — Another reader asks: As I worked through the article in the latest issue of The Streamliner on the coal fired turbine with the details of loads, empties, and tons in each test train, a bell rang. I can't remember how an occupied caboose or an occupied outfit car was classified. Are they empties or loads?

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 17, Number 2, Spring 2003

We have a lot to cover this issue, so let's get to it. First, some more on questions from the last issue:

Q353 — When did the U.P. start painting their derail switch targets purple with a white "D"?

A353 — Jim Ehernberger graciously sent us some data from his files on this question. Included was drawing CE-83074, dated June 17, 1982, showing the purple targets. Also included was a letter dated May 6, 1983 to the various Division Engineer's offices enclosing the drawing and notifying them of this new standard. The eleven-month delay is guessed to be due to the approval process. Thanks, Jim.

Rick Dolifka wrote to tell us more on:

Q354 — Some of the recently released Marklin/Trix 40' AAR boxcars have the "Be Specific, Ship Union Pacific" slogan in yellow lettering on the sides but also have the Union Pacific Overland medallion -- also in yellow on each side by the slogan. Is this a correct lettering scheme or "artistic liberty" taken by Trix?

A354 — Rick notes that the Morning Sun book "UP Color Guide to Freight & Passenger Equipment Vol. 2" by Lou Schmitz shows four different boxcars that have the Overland medallion on them. One of them being 190169, a car that Trix modeled, as well as cars with later paint schemes. Rick also writes, "I personally saw a boxcar about two years ago on a southbound freight in Austin, Texas with a large colored Overland [medallion] on it with WP reporting marks." Thanks, Rick. And so, the Overland medallion lives on. The accuracy of other numbers used by Marklin/Trix has not yet been confirmed.

For our last old question, we got two replies:

Q355 — I can't remember how an occupied caboose or an occupied outfit car was classified. Are they empties or loads?

A355 — Roger Kelley wrote us: "As I recall, I was chastised severely for listing a caboose or a combine as a load in the consist even though they carried freight and or passengers. So from that time forward I listed them as mty (empty). The outfit cars were usually listed as occupied or unoccupied and when dealing with a switch list I always showed them as ‘LIVE' DO NOT DROP OR KICK handle with extreme care. But I am not certain how they were reported so far as load or mty on the manifest." While Jim Ehernberger wrote: "Any occupied car was counted as a 'load'. I remember on the incoming call sheets that indicated a westward drag with (example) 1-105-2500, which meant: 1 load (caboose), 105 empties, and 2500 (example) tons." Thanks, Roger and Jim.

Now for a few new questions:

Q356 — I'm trying to install lanterns on a couple of cabooses and wanted to know if you could tell me what the colors were in the rear, side and front of the lanterns. A friend at our club and I think the rear was red, side was amber, and the front was green. We've looked at a thousand pictures, but most are black & white.

A356 — Among others, Mike Brock has pointed out: "The UP rule book...July 1, 1946, says:

Rule 19. The following signals must be displayed, one on each side of rear of train, as markers, to indicate the rear of train: By day, marker lights not lighted. By night, marker lamps displaying green lights to front and side and red light to rear, except when train is clear of main track green lights must be displayed to front, side, and rear. When train is turned out against current of traffic, it must display markers showing green lights to front and side, a green light to rear on side next to main track on which current of traffic is in the direction train is moving, and a red light to rear on the opposite side.

Rule 19A: When a branch or diverging line main track parallels a main track of a superior route, train occupying the branch or diverging line main track by night, when clear of superior route, must display markers showing green lights to front and side, a green light to rear on side next to main track of superior route, and a red light to rear on the opposite side.

19B: Where their use is authorized, markers displaying yellow instead of green lights may be used and must be respected the same as green lights.

19C: A red flag by day or a red light by night must be displayed on rear of car handled behind caboose."

So for modeling (without changing markers), red to the rear and green to the side and front seems to be the best choice. Anyone have info from other years?

Q357 — In the 1920's, 30's and even later, "Official Guides to Railway Equipment" for Union Pacific Passenger equipment and the Public Timetables have reference to Chair cars and Coach cars. The implication being there is a difference in service or perhaps comfort. What is the difference?

A357 — Bob Darwin wrote: "Since I was a kid, I always believed that a coach had bench seats on either side of the aisle and that chair cars had individual seats placed two side-by-side on either side of the aisle. Admittedly, this concept may have changed over the years and the UP, for one, certainly confused the issue with some of their terminology, but I believe this basic definition is probably closer to the fact than anything else we could dream of." Thanks, Bob. As Bob notes, UP was not precise in the terminology used in their Public Timetables, since they refer to "Reclining Seat Coaches", among other examples. Any other opinions?

Q358 — Was there a requirement for UP helper engines helping passenger trains between San Bernardino and Summit to be equipped with ATS? GP-9 294 helping No. 116 in the top photo on page 35 of Chard Walker's "Railroading Through Cajon Pass" appears to have an ATS pick up shoe on the lead pair of wheels of the front truck.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 17, Number 3, Summer 2003

This column is being written before the annual UPHS convention. So, we'll have to wait until next issue to share with you some of the interesting conversations we always have at the UPHS convention. We will start this time with a couple items from the last column:

Sometimes even we do not remember every question, and then we repeat ourselves. Such was the case with Q356, regarding caboose marker lamps, and A356 which came from the July 1, 1946, UP rulebook. Turns out we had nearly the same question in Q330. And answer A330 came from the July 1, 1954, rulebook. Anyone out there have a rule book from the 1960's, 1970's or 1980's?

Our other question from last issue is:

Q358 — Was there a requirement for UP helper engines helping passenger trains between San Bernardino and Summit to be equipped with ATS? GP9 294 helping No. 116 in the top photo on page 35 of Chard Walker's "Railroading Through Cajon Pass" appears to have an ATS pick up shoe on the front truck.

And our answer comes from Chard Walker himself:

A358 — Chard writes, "Helpers on eastbound passenger trains from San Bernardino to Summit did not require ATS equipment, as ATS Territory extended from Lugo (the next station east of Summit) to Barstow eastward, and from Barstow to Oro Grande westward. This assumes that the helper would cut off at Summit. If the helper was to doublehead all the way to Barstow, it would have to have ATS. Since the GP9 unit 294 did have ATS pickup, it could have taken the train all the way to Yermo." Thanks very much, Chard.

Now here are some interesting new questions:

Q359 — I am researching the life of a UP employee. He was apparently a member of the Union Pacific Gun Club in Los Angeles, CA, and I am trying to obtain information concerning the club itself. Do you have any information about the gun club, or could you direct me to someone who might?

Q360 — I am researching former World War II Army Airfields in Kansas and am trying to determine those locations in which the Union Pacific Railroad served. I'm trying to get an idea of the products delivered by rail to these locations to get a snapshot of what may have been delivered on any given day, week, month, or year to these old Army Airfields during the early to mid-1940s. Would you happen to have any historical records that may detail rail-shipping documents or shipping logs and quantities delivered during the early to mid-1940s? My interests are with regard to fire extinguishing materials, industrial cleaning solvents, household cleaning solvents, military munitions (both explosive and chemical), any type of fuel, and any type of chemical delivered to and used on the old air bases.

Below is a list of the former World War II Army Airfields in Kansas. To pick a starting point, I have chosen Walker Army Airfield as my first focus. However, I consider information about the other Army Airfields listed also important.

1) Walker Army Airfield (Victoria, Kansas near Hays, Kansas and Walker, Kansas)

2) Pratt Army Airfield (Pratt, Kansas)

3) Great Bend Army Airfield (Great Bend, Kansas)

3) Smoky Hill Army Airfield (Salina, Kansas)

4) Strother Army Airfield (Winfield, Kansas)

5) Herington Army Airfield (Herington, Kansas)

6) Liberal Army Airfield (Liberal, Kansas)

7) Garden City Army Airfield (Garden City, Kansas)

8) Topeka Army Airfield (Topeka, Kansas)

9) Independence Army Airfield (Independence, Kansas)

10) Coffeyville Army Airfield (Coffeyville, Kansas)

Q361 — I would like information or drawings of the track at Dale junction, preferably in the transition era, about 1950. I would like details of the turnouts, their locations and the turnout number and easement. Drawings or straight down aerial photos in sufficient detail would be good.

A361 — Jim Ehernberger suggested contacting the UP Museum in Council Bluffs, IA since "this information resides with the Chief Engineer and any maps (of most any era) could possibly be obtained by the museum staff." And note that the UPHS is not part of the UP Museum. Thanks, Jim.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 17, Number 4, Fall 2003

We are still seeking information regarding the use of caboose marker lamps in the 1960s to 1980s. We would appreciate hearing from anyone out there that has a rulebook from the 1960s, 1970s or 1980s.

Regarding a question from the last issue, we have a partial answer:

Q360 — I am researching former World War II Army Airfields in Kansas and am trying to determine those locations in which the Union Pacific Railroad served.

A360 — First, information can be found in Volume 14, Number 3 of The Streamliner, which contained several articles regarding the UP during World War II, including a map of UP territory in Kansas and other states. Additionally, we heard from reader Ross Meyer, who told us that Pratt Army Airfield was served by the CRI&P, and that Great Bend Army Airfield was served by the AT&SF spur, as well as items trucked to that base from the local MoPac branch. Ross noted that while airframes, engines, aviation gas and practice bombs were shipped to the base by rail, many small volume items such as heating kerosene, auto gas and lubricating oils were delivered by truck by local petroleum distributors. He also suggested contacting local newspapers and county or city historical societies but noted that photos were scarce due to wartime security. Going directly to the Dept. of Defense was also suggested. Thanks, Ross.

Now for some new questions:

Q362 — I'd like to get some information on the UP diner 906201 located at the Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris, California. Is it similar to the UP diner at Griffith Park in Los Angeles?

Larry Hochhalter sent us the following:

A362 — "That MoW car was converted from the original diner Union Pacific 312. Number 312 was built by Pullman Company in 1927. It was an 83 ft. 36-seat first class unit. During 1932, this diner (among several others) was returned to Pullman to have Mechanical Brine air conditioning units applied. Sometime between late 1938 and mid to late 1941, it was renumbered to 3612. At this time, Union Pacific was renumbering their passenger fleet in a manner that made it easier to keep track of what service the cars were intended. This diner, being renumbered to 3612, was to stay in full 36-seat diner service. By 1952, the car was again remodeled, and this time it was given the classic heavyweight streamlined roof that UP was applying to many of the heavyweights. As late as 1968, this diner (along with 3609) was still in service, at least as reported in the Official Railway Equipment Register. Diners 310 through 314 were all delivered in the same lot to the same plan during 1927. During 1928, 315 through 324 were delivered, and in 1929, 325 through 329 were added on to the roster. It is my understanding that these diners were virtually the same in plan and diagram. They did take different routes later in life. Some were air conditioned later than 1932, and many were placed into the 4600 class, when equipped with 46 seats. Note that the diner in Griffith Park is different. It was built in 1921 and was numbered the 369 when delivered. Air was applied in 1936 while it was also undergoing refurbishment. It went back into service as a coffee shop diner (probably on the famous Challenger train). Very likely it served on the Los Angeles version of that famous train. By March 1955, this unit was out of the Official Register of Equipment." Thanks, Larry.

Diner 3612 can be found on diagrams P-4-4 (1941) and P-4-12 (1952). Additional information shows 3612 was converted to MP&M (Motive Power & Machinery) Derrick Train Service diner 906201 in 1972. PL&N drawing 3-CD-605 shows it as part of the MP&M diner series 906200 to 906206. The other cars converted in that series were 3609, 4607, 4608, 4611, 4613 and 4622. The paint scheme was all Aluminum with black lettering.

Q363 — I am seeking information on the Union Pacific line that was built around 1925 and ran south from Twin Falls, Idaho to connect with the Southern Pacific and the Western Pacific at Wells, Nevada. My uncle was for some time a conductor on mixed trains that ran on these tracks, and I had the pleasure of accompanying him on two trips. I am planning to write a story of these childhood adventures and desire to know:

1. Why it was built, with no towns on the Nevada side.

2. The length of the line.

3. The towns and sidings along the way.

4. When it was torn up.

5. The type of steam power used around 1943 and 1944.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 18, Number 1, Winter 2004

We have a lot of material this issue; so, let's get to it.

Regarding a question from a previous issue, we have some more information:

Q360 — I am researching former World War II Army Airfields in Kansas and am trying to determine those locations in which the Union Pacific Railroad served.

A360 — Thornton Waite suggests another source of information on rail connections to World War II military bases is "The Official Guide of the Railways", which at that time had a separate section listing military bases. Thanks, Thornton.

Regarding our search for more information on the proper use of Caboose Markers, we have just acquired several UP Rules books and will be continuing that answer in our next issue. Also note, "Markers" were displayed to mark the end of a train, and "Classification" (or Class) signals were displayed on the front of trains to denote a section or extra train. We'll also look for other subjects of interest in these Rulebooks. Let us know if you have any questions.

And from the last issue we had:

Q363 — I am seeking information on the Union Pacific line that was built around 1925 and ran south from Twin Falls, Idaho to connect with the Southern Pacific and the Western Pacific at Wells, Nevada.

A363 — Gerry Moser wrote us: "I am a retired Agent from the UP after 45 years of service and have a little experience with the Wells Branch, which ran from Twin Falls, Idaho to Wells, Nevada.

"I do not know the year that the branch was completed, but the purpose of the branch was to expedite traffic between Southern Idaho and California. Prior to the Wells Branch, freight traffic had to go from Idaho to Utah and then to California, etc. The branch was ‘discontinued' and torn up in the mid-1950s. Evidence of it can still be seen today alongside the highway between Jackpot and Wells, Nevada. Some of the telegraph poles are still standing.

"The Wells Branch was 123 miles long. There were two open Agencies on the branch — one at Rogerson, Idaho, the other at Contact, Nevada. The Combine car that operated on this branch is shown on page 17 of volume 17 number 4 of The Streamliner. The scene on page 21 of that issue could easily have been taken on the Wells Branch. This light 2-8-0 is typical of the power used on the branch.

"There were stock yards at Berger, Hollister, Rogerson, San Jacinto, Henry, Wilkins, and Wells. There were Section Houses at Twin Falls #441, Rogerson #443, Delaplain #444, Henry #446, Summer Camp #448, and Wells #449. I suspect the Depots were standard UP branchline design, as shown on page 35 of that issue. There were 50,000-gallon Water Tanks at Rogerson, Delaplain, Henry, Wilkins (Red Point), and Wells. The one at Rogerson was filled from the Rogerson Water Co., and the others were all filled by an oil driven pump, which was serviced by an employee called a ‘Pumper', who traveled from place to place each day making sure the pumps were working and the tanks filled. There were Coaling facilities for locomotives at Twin Falls, Henry and Wells." Gerry also sent us copies from the January 1951 issue of the List of Agencies, Stations, Equipment, etc. Thanks very much, Gerry.

More information on branches can be found in various Employee Timetables, including the volume of Feb.29, 1948 Timetables published by the UPHS.

Now for some new questions:

Q364 — What was the original color for the UP Ohio cranes, and when where they acquired? What color would be correct for modeling the mid-to-late 1960s?

Q365 — I have a question about the original motor used in the M-10000 prototype UP streamliner in 1934. I have a book that describes it as a V-type, 600 HP, "distillate" engine (as opposed to steam). Supposedly this was eventually replaced with a larger diesel. Do you have any specification on the original engine such as manufacturer, type fuel used, bore & stroke etc.? I assume this drove a DC generator and traction motors. Any information you can supply would be much appreciated.

A365 — From volume 5, number 3 of The Streamliner we found that the M-10000 was powered by a Winton model 191-A internal combustion engine that had conventional spark ignition, rather than diesel ignition. The "distillate" fuel is described as "a heavy grade of refined (distillate) oil somewhat similar to diesel fuel." Curiously, the Diagram for the M-10000 locomotive, S-1, lists the fuel as "Butane — 550 gallons." Since the 600 HP engine was adequate for the 3-car consist and the consist remained the same until the M-10000 was retired in December 1941, the engine was never replaced. Two 300 HP traction motors were on the lead truck. Much more information about the M-10000 can be found in that issue, as well as in "Union Pacific Streamliners" by Ranks and Kratville and other books.

Q366 — I recently saw a reference that indicated that in the mid-1940s the UP had ordered and assigned numbers for the Baldwin Centipede [model DR12-8-1500/2], but abruptly cancelled their order. Does anyone know the story? Did Baldwin ever paint the Centipede with the UP Yellow/Grey? Did Baldwin use the UP units as their demonstration units?

A366 — From Don Strack's website, Utahrails.net, we got the following: "In October 1945, two months after the Erie-builts were ordered, UP placed an order for Baldwin Centipedes. AFE 314, dated October 24, 1945, reads, ‘Purchase one 6,000 horsepower combination passenger and freight locomotive (two units) for operation between Salt Lake City, Utah, and Los Angeles, Calif. From Baldwin Locomotive Works. Total cost of $600,000. Expected delivery during third quarter 1946.' The order was canceled in April 1947, after a promised delivery during August 1946 became August 1947. A UP representative who visited the Baldwin factory near Philadelphia in late March 1947 found that no material had been marked for the locomotive, or that any ‘lay-down plans' even existed. The two units were later completed as Baldwin demonstrators 6000 and 6001 in March 1948, used in a limited demonstration tour that did not generate any additional sales, and quietly scrapped by Baldwin after furnishing parts for wreck repairs to similar Pennsylvania Railroad and National of Mexico units." Thanks, Don. Research continues to try to determine the road numbers UP may have assigned these units. No Centipedes were ever painted UP Yellow/Gray.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 18, Number 2, Spring 2004

This issue marks the beginning of our sixth year with the Q&A Column. We hope you have learned as much as we have during those years. As always, if you have any ideas for questions or thoughts about answers, we'd like to hear from you. Your participation is what keeps this column interesting and informative.

We'll start this time with a question from last issue, which still needs an answer:

Q364 — What was the original color for the UP Ohio cranes, and when where they acquired? What color would be correct for modeling the mid-to-late 1960s?

Now for some new questions:

Q367 — I am attempting to modify an N-scale Union Pacific GP9 into a GP9B, and I would like to replicate one of the several [15] units that were equipped with steam generators. Don Strack's book, "Diesels of the Union Pacific -- The Classics Era -- Vol. 1", provides some side view photos of GP9Bs so equipped, but the positioning of the steam generator vents and stacks on the roof cannot be ascertained from these illustrations. Can you provide me with any descriptive data or guidance on the proper roof positioning of the external GP9B steam generator appliances?

Q368 — I am planning to detail and repaint a Spectrum doodlebug to represent an earlier model than the grey and yellow paint scheme produced by Spectrum. From the black and white photos of such prototypes, I am unsure on the actual paint schemes of the early doodlebugs. Is it black or a dark green? Also, are the bogies and roof different colours?

A368 — While we are still investigating just how close the Spectrum doodlebug is to any prototype UP motorcar, we can state the paint scheme of early motorcars. They were painted Dark Olive (CS-22, No. 1), including the trucks (bogies). The roof was painted (or tarred) Black, and of course became dirty pretty quickly. In general, the Roman (serif) style lettering was done with gold leaf, and the Gothic (sans serif) lettering was done with Dulux Gold paint. This is the same paint scheme as passenger cars.

Our next question and answer was forwarded to us from the UPHS website:

Q369 — Can you tell me what the Union Pacific Old Timers Club is? I typed it into Google and found lots of references to it, but nothing about the club itself. Basically, I am just curious what it was for.

Jim Ehernberger provided this answer:

A369 — "In 1922, there was a retirement party held here in Cheyenne for a very popular locomotive engineer. Many officials out of Omaha attended. Someone who was speaking suggested they organize and have frequent gatherings, etc. Carl Gray, President agreed, and Bill Jeffers immediately said the company would support such organizations. Jeffers was quick to say no official could be an officer in the organization, and that any official attending organization functions would have to hang their brass hat when entering. So, this started the Old Timers Clubs on the UP. This was set up for people who had 20 years or more service. Cheyenne is Club Number 1, and there were several located throughout the system. Later, younger employees also wanted a similar club, and they formed and became the Junior Old Timers, and they accepted any employees. About ten or fifteen years ago, the two organizations merged, and now it is referred to as the Employees Club." Thanks, Jim and Hilding.

Art Francis sent us a follow-up to the question regarding the Winton engine of the M10000:

A365 — "As a kid I remember that engine being used in the power house at Kelso, California after the steam generators were removed at the end of the Second World War. I remember the manifolds, generally the shape of the air box inspection covers, and that it was very loud when running and on the line. It was not too reliable, and a large six cylinder Chicago Pneumatic generator set was brought down from Caliente, Nevada and installed with the Winton as a backup." Thanks, Art.

Last but not least, Don Bedford in England got us in touch with Bill Hall, a rules official at Union Pacific. Bill put together a comparison of Rule 19 — Markers for the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. We are working on combining that information with data from earlier UP Rules books, and we hope to have a short article on Rule 19 in the next issue of The Streamliner. Thanks to both Don and Bill for their help. Let us know if you have any other Rules questions.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 18, Number 3, Summer 2004

To start this issue, we had a response from L.E. Crowner regarding:

Q355 — I can't remember how an occupied caboose or an occupied outfit car was classified. Are they empties or loads?

A355 — Mr. Crowner writes, "For all the years on the railroad, and for being part of everyday duties, I would have said that the caboose was probably a load. Do not have any strong memories or remember why it was a load. In the computer age, being an empty might have triggered a speed restriction. Enclosed are 2 copies of train [switch] lists [from 1964 & ‘66] that show the caboose as a load." Thanks for the help and data. Any other employees have some comments?

The next questions were received via the Society website & headquarters.

Q370 — My brother and I are wondering what happened to all the outside-braced [single-sheathed] outfit cars used by the Union Pacific. We would see them all the time, but once the C&NW was merged into UP, they all seemed to disappear. Were they all retired and scrapped at that time? Did any get saved in a museum?

A370 — Mr. John Bromley from UP Public Relations wrote us: "I can only assume they were scrapped. The company has long stopped using them. Maintenance crews now stay in motels in the areas they are working. I'm not aware any were saved for a museum." Thanks, John. Anyone have more information?

Q371 — I'm trying to learn the 'differences' between the CITY trains and the CHALLENGER trains. I have one paperback by Patrick Dorin, UP's Challenger, which does not seem to answer my question.

A371 — The basic differences between the "City" and "Challenger" trains were price and schedule. The Challenger trains were established in the 1930s as economy versions of the extra fare "Limited" trains. They offered coach and tourist sleeping car service, using modernized heavyweight equipment, on the same schedule (nominally 60 hours) as the LA Limited and San Francisco Overland Limited trains without the aggravation of extra charges, and as an antidote to the Depression. An excellent article on the history, equipment and operations of the Challenger trains is presented in The Streamliner, volume Nos. 9-4 and volume 10-1.

The City trains, on the other hand, were intended to reduce passenger schedules to less than 40 hours between Chicago and the west coast. To accomplish this, they were built of lightweight Aluminum alloys and powered by diesel-electric locomotives. They were the best passenger trains on the railroad.

The ultimate reference for information on the City trains is Harold Rank's & Bill Kratville's book The Union Pacific Streamliners. The book is still available at hobby shops that handle railroad related books and is highly recommended.

The Challenger trains were discontinued in 1947 as the Union Pacific began operating the City trains on daily schedules. In January 1954, a streamlined Challenger train began service between Los Angeles and Chicago on a schedule as fast as the City of Los Angeles (COLA). At the same time, extra-fare charges on the COLA were eliminated, so there was no longer any difference in price and schedule between the two trains. In fact, in the 1960s, the two trains were often combined as a single train in one or two sections as needed.

We are still seeking an answer to this question:

Q364 — What was the original color for the UP Ohio cranes, and when where they acquired? What color would be correct for modeling the mid-to-late 1960s?

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 18, Number 4, Fall 2004

The question about whether cabooses were loads or empties still brings us mail:

Q355 — I can't remember how an occupied caboose or an occupied outfit car was classified. Are they empties or loads?

A355 — Mark Amfahr wrote us, "There was a comment in the most recent Streamliner that cabooses were shown on certain train (switch) lists as loads (at least in one region in the mid-1960s). While I cannot comment on 1960s' lists, I can say that computer lists during the following two decades showed cabooses as empties. I have a few original computer-generated UP train lists covering system-wide operations through the late 1970s and early 1980s. In every case, the lists show cabooses as empties using equipment code "ECAB" with either 28 or 30 gross tons. I am not sure what the official status of cabooses may have been, or why they would have been classified a certain way. I can only say that the computer consistently spit out lists showing them as empties, even when occupied." Thanks, Mark.

We received two responses about UP single-sheathed outfit cars:

Q370 —What happened to the outside-braced [single-sheathed] outfit cars used by the Union Pacific? Did any get saved in a museum?

A370 — Norman Holmes from the Feather River Rail Society / Portola [CA] Railroad Museum wrote us:

"We have two of the 50-ft UP outfit cars in our museum — numbers 905884 and 907344. Both were bunk cars and are in the original [aluminum] paint. I believe there is at least one at CSRM in Sacramento and possibly one at Train Mountain in Oregon — not sure however." Thanks Norman. We also heard from Marc Entze, "I've been researching these cars for the last couple of years as UP rebuilt A-50-12s, B-50-26s, etc. into outfit cars. I am aware of three surviving outfit cars of various rebuild lineages. The 906161, a bunk car, is preserved at a very small museum at Hillyard, Washington (near Spokane). The name of the organization is the Hillyard Fire and Rail Museum. The museum also has a GN boxcar and caboose. Two additional cars are located on the UP — one at Haines, Oregon and the other at The Dalles, Oregon. The car at Haines is a tool car and is still being used for company storage. Neither of the two cars still on the UP has moved for a very long time." Thanks, Marc. Anyone know of other outfit cars in museums or on sidings?

And now, a new question:

Q372 — I would like to know the disposition of a 49'er car, specifically the 17 roomette-1 sect car Roaring Camp. After the cancellation of the 49'er in 1941, did this car see service on other trains, did it change colors (two-tone gray and/or Armour yellow) and did it keep the same name?

A372 — In addition to the information in the 49'er article in this issue, the following information about Roaring Camp was found in both the Ranks & Kratville book UP Streamliners and in Arthur Dubin's book Pullman Painting & Lettering Notebook. Both books have nearly the same information. Roaring Camp was a Pullman-owned car while it was in 49'er service on the UP. When the 49'er was canceled in 1941 (after the 10th train City of San Francisco was started), Roaring Camp was repainted into Pullman two-tone gray (NOT the same as UP TTG) and returned to the Pullman pool. In June 1944 (Pullman records) and/or April 1945 (repair drawing date), Roaring Camp was painted into B&O blue & gray colors and assigned to B&O service. In December 1948, the car was sold to B&O. We do not know the further disposition of this car. More info about Pullman cars can be found on the Internet at:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 19, Number 1, Winter 2005

We have some interesting new questions this time, so let's get right to them.

Q373 — A reader sent us a picture, from the 1953 book The Steam Locomotive in America by Bruce, taken in the 1800s of the locomotive Seminole. The questions are: What do the initials "U-P-R-W. E-D." on the side of the tender mean? And when was this locomotive built?

That photo made us think of two other questions:

Q374 — When did UP stop naming locomotives? And what was the last-named locomotive?

For a more contemporary era question, we have:

Q375 — I know that the extra water tenders used with the steam locos 844 and 3985 were formerly used as fuel tenders with the 8500 hp turbines [tender class 24-C-GTE]. When were these tenders first used with those steam locos? Also, I know that two tenders were renumbered from 907856 and 907857 to UPP 809 and UPP 814. Are these the only water tenders in use? And, when did their numbers change from the 9078xx series to the UPP8xx series?

A UP modeler asked us:

Q376 — Did the UP have USRA Heavy 2-10-2s? An unnamed model manufacturer emailed me that the UP owned copies "in later years".

A376 — To the best of our knowledge, UP never owned any USRA 2-10-2s. They may have borrowed one for evaluation at one time or another. We have seen info that UP borrowed/leased steam locomotives from the ATSF, CB&Q and IC during periods when traffic was heavy. But UP rosters never included any USRA 2-10-2s, and we know of none painted UP. UP did own USRA 0-6-0s and light 2-8-2s. Maybe that explains the incorrect information you received.

Two-Tone Gray paint continues to bring us questions:

Q377 — What are the correct colors for the grays used in the Two-Tone Gray paint scheme?

A377 — Drawing 992CA33179, rev. A June 2, 1949, lists the colors of the steam locomotive version of Two-Tone Gray as simply Light Gray and Dark Gray, with DuPont paint numbers 83-8234 and 83-8235 respectively.

The July 10, 1950, version of C.S.22 for Passenger Train Cars lists the Two-Tone Gray colors as:

C.S.22 — No. 183 Light Gray Enamel

C.S.22 — No. 184 Dark Gray Enamel

(The roof, steps below the side sill, underframe, and trucks are Black.)

Examining the 1949 Color Drift Control cards, we see that No. 183 Light Gray is very similar to, but just a bit darker than, No. 182 Harbor Mist Gray. It is a little darker than Pantone Cool Gray 10C (Harbor Mist Gray being just a bit lighter than Cool Gray 10C). Unfortunately, the Pantone set of more than 1100 colors does not often match railroad colors exactly.

As for No. 184 Dark Gray, it's closest Pantone match is 432C, though it is just a bit darker than 432C.

For those not having Pantone cards (most likely), visit your local color print shop, as they most certainly should.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 19, Number 2, Spring 2005

It seems that a photo published in the last issue generated a lot of responses. Maybe we should run more of them. Here is a summation of the answers we received for those questions:

Q373 — Regarding the locomotive Seminole shown in the book The Steam Locomotive in America by Bruce, questions are: What do the initials "U-P-R-W. E-D." on the side of the tender mean? And when was this locomotive built?

A373 — First of all, this locomotive, when photographed, was not owned by the Union Pacific Railroad. U-P-R-W. E-D stands for Union Pacific Rail Way Eastern Division; a company that, at the time, had no connection to the UPRR except a similar name. That company was founded in 1855 as the Leavenworth, Pawnee and Western Railroad by special act of the Kansas Legislature. In June 1863, the name was changed to Union Pacific Railway Company, Eastern Division by stockholder resolution — a change designed to gain additional financial backers.

They originally hoped to be the southern branch of the transcontinental railroad and built from the Kansas City area to meet the UP near Kearney. That idea didn't work out, and in April 1869 they set sights for Denver and became the Kansas Pacific Railway Company by a joint resolution of congress. Throughout those changes, there was no corporate connection with the Union Pacific Railroad. It wasn't until January 1880 that The Union Pacific Railway Company was formed by consolidation of The Union Pacific Railroad Company, Kansas Pacific Railway Co, and Denver Pacific Railway & Telegraph Co.

The Seminole was a wood-burning 4-4-0 built for the UPRWED by Rogers in April 1867, const.# 1459. It became the UPED-21 soon thereafter. It became KP-21 in 1869, and in 1885 it became the UP Railway System #323. It was retired in 1889.

Q374 — When did UP stop naming locomotives? And what was the last-named locomotive?

A374 — It is believed that only 11 of the first 12 UP 4-4-0 locomotives officially had names. The first named 4-4-0 locomotive was UP No. 1, General Sherman, built in 1864 by Danforth, Cooke & Co. The last named UP 4-4-0 loco was the Danforth built No. 12 Bellevue, built in 1866. No other types of UP locos were named at that time, and the names didn't last past the 1880s. All other UP locomotives were given numbers only, with the exception of the shop engines Omaha, Cheyenne and Wyoming, which lasted through the 1930s. Additionally, 6 six OR&N locos had names while they were on the predecessor OSN; the first 29 UPRWED (later KP) locomotives were named, mostly for Indian tribes (including the Seminole); and the Denver Pacific had named some of its locos.

Our thanks to the many readers who responded with information on the above questions, and especially to Gordon McCulloh, Dave Seidel and John C. Kenefick (retired UPRR President).

Now for some new questions, here's a question from far away:

Q378 — "I am hoping to make a model of the Union Pacific NCS Gondola as shown on diagram F-9-1. There is a photograph of one along with the line diagram in The Streamliner, Vol.14, No.4, page 38. However, I need more information on its design details.

Q379 — When looking through a couple of books on Union Pacific steam power, I noticed metal attachments to the front right side of the tenders on the 9000s, 5000s, 5500s, and a few other engines. Seems that somewhere I read these were Engineer's Grip Boxes. Makes sense, since these engines had relatively small cabs.

Can you tell me anything about these grip boxes, such as when they were installed and the classes of power on which they were installed?

It seems that bogus paint schemes on models will forever plague the serious UP modeler.

Q380 — I have a question about steam locomotives. I know that UP had 4-8-2 Mountains that were built under the Harriman specifications, but did they ever have any that were built under the United States Railroad Administration (USRA)?

A380 — No, Union Pacific never owned any USRA 4-8-2s. They did own USRA 0-6-0s and 2-8-2s.

And lastly, we have another question about Two-Tone Gray paint:

Q381 — I have purchased some nice-looking HO gauge models of UP two-tone gray passenger cars over the years. They all have silver striping and lettering. I have also purchased two-tone gray locos, Northerns and Challengers. They all have yellow stripes. I know that the UP also had these locos with silver stripes. Were the silver striped engines used only on Overland trains with silver striping? Were the engines with yellow striping used as back-up power for the early streamliners? How many Northerns and Challengers were painted in the gray scheme?

A381 — The Two-Tone Gray paint scheme on UP started in 1946. The letters and striping on passenger cars were always Striping Gray or Silver Gray. The scheme lasted until 1952, when it was declared that all UP passenger cars would be painted yellow & gray. While there is some speculation that the same letter and striping gray color was used at the start of locomotive painting, Armour Yellow was specified for lettering and striping on drawing 992-CA-33179 for "All Locomotives in Passenger Service", when first issued 12-26-46. The reason being that steam was used as back-up power for the Armour Yellow streamliner trains. After more diesel power was acquired in 1947 and 1948, the need for steam power on streamliner trains was greatly reduced, if not eliminated, and the TTG steam loco drawing was changed on 6-2-49 to have Silver Gray stripes and lettering. So, the color of the stripes and lettering on locomotives has to do with the period, and not train service. There is an article on TTG in vol.4 no.1 of The Streamliner.

Eventually, the paint scheme was applied to 4-6-2, 4-8-2, 4-8-4, and 4-6-6-4 locos in passenger service. Exactly how many of these engines and what road numbers is a topic under research. Photos seem to be the only reliable reference found so far. We would like to hear from readers on this subject. No UP diesels were ever painted TTG.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 19, Number 3, Summer 2005

An old question is still in need of an answer:

Q364 — What was the original color for the UP Ohio cranes, and when where they acquired? What color would be correct for modeling the mid-to-late 1960s?

A364 — While we have not received any info on 1960s' paint schemes for Ohio cranes, Keith Martin provided us with some photos of two different paint schemes that were used in the 1980s. Thanks, Keith. Readers with earlier information are urged to contact us.

Our previous column had the following question:

Q379 — When looking through a couple of books on Union Pacific steam power, I noticed metal attachments to the front right side of the tenders on the 9000s, 5000s, 5500s, and a few other engines. Seems that somewhere I read these were Engineer's Grip Boxes. Can you tell me anything about these grip boxes, such as when they were installed and the classes of power on which they were installed?

A379 — Gordon McCulloh, one of our UP steam authorities, wrote us: "Beginning in July 1941, the mechanical department began to issue drawings for details and locations of ‘Grip Box Containers'. All of the drawings for tender mounted grip boxes state specifically ‘Used With Coal Burning Locos. In Road Service Only'. They were specified for 7000-, 9000-, 10000-, 12000-, 15000- and 18000-gallon cylindrical tanks. These were about 52" long (fore & aft) and 16" wide, with a sloped top sheet over an enclosed box. The rectangular door was on the front." Thanks, Sandy.

Additional research found a drawing first done as a ‘Sketch' in September 1939 for oil burning locos, again "In Road Service Only." It shows an open style "Grip Box Container", made from iron bars, which was attached behind the cab rear wall, under the roof and above the doorway. The drawing was redrawn and renumbered in August 1941. It covers locos from 2-8-0s to 4-6-6-4s. What did Road Engineers do before these boxes were added?

And here's a thought-provoking new question:

Q382 — My question deals with the Denver Pacific, and later the UP's "Greeley Line", during the years 1870 to 1920. I am specifically interested in locating data with respect to the number of car loadings, by station, beginning with Brighton to Nunn, during this period. Ideally, the data would include the nature and quantity of the products loaded. This data is to be used in an economic history of central Weld County, Colorado. I realize that such data may be difficult to obtain, but I am hoping that a reader can provide a lead as to where this data could be found.

Photo Captions & Credit:

Ohio crane #903076 in yellow and black paint at Las Vegas, NV Nevada on 5-17-80 May 17, 1980.

Ohio crane #903052 in Aluminum and black paint at Cheyenne, WY on 8-18-87 August 18, 1987.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 19, Number 4, Fall-2005

Q383 — When was the hood of A-unit diesels first painted flat dark green, and when did it become a non-skid surface?

A383 — It is believed that the first flat dark green hood was on the Fairbanks-Morse "Erie-built" A-units that were delivered in late December 1945. This was to reduce the glare caused by the Armour Yellow hood in front of the engine crew. No documentation has been found yet adopting this as a standard or to help date the repainting of A-units delivered before that date. Correspondence found at the CRM Library shows the change from flat paint to Dark Green "Skidless Liquid Plastic" was adopted as standard practice for A-units by a letter from D.S. Neuhart, General Superintendent of Motive Power & Machinery, dated May 14, 1951. The new material was to be distributed: 10 gallons each to Omaha and Los Angeles, 5 gallons each to Denver, Pocatello and Albina (Portland).

Q384 — When was the "DS" removed from the road number for diesel switch engines?

A384 — Copies of UP correspondence found at the CRM Library show that the removal of the "DS" was instructed by a letter dated February 11, 1953, from D.S. Neuhart, General Superintendent of Motive Power & Machinery. The change was to be made "whenever units are repainted." Additionally, the letter stated, "Painted or Scotchlited road number should be centered in the space formerly used by ‘DS' and the road number."

A385 — Another letter from Omaha that caught our interest was dated March 22, 1951. It stated, "Each time inside of cab is painted on Diesel ‘A' Units, arrange stencil on wide portion of dash, or ahead of Brakeman's seat, in one inch letters, quote: ‘Please Do Not Place Feet on Dash Board or Windshield'." Now, does anyone have that on their models?

The last of our questions was generated by some correspondence regarding the reweighing of F-units that had received pilot snowplows:

Q386 — Does anyone have a list of which UP F-units received pilot snowplows during their operating career? When did these units have the snowplow? Are there published photos of all these units with a snowplow?

And here's a question answered with info from another great research resource:

Q387 — In 1948 the Union Pacific purchased several heavyweight sleepers from the Pullman fleet. Were those cars Pullman Green or Two-Tone Gray (TTG) at that time? Did any get painted Yellow & Gray (Y&G)?

A387 — Most of the 55 heavyweight cars UP purchased from Pullman in 1948 were Pullman Green when received. The cars that ran on the City of St. Louis (Balsam Fir, Douglas Fir, Inland Empire, Pinon Pine, Poudre Lake and Silver Spruce) were painted TTG by Pullman in March 1947 prior to the sale to UP. About half of the other cars were painted TTG after UP's purchase. By mid-1952, essentially all of the cars were painted Y&G.

The best source of information about Pullman cars (both heavyweight and lightweight) is Tom Madden's website, www.pullmanproject.com. The site contains an exceptionally detailed database that includes car names, plan numbers, build dates, painting info, mechanical details and disposition information. Thanks, Tom, for sharing your superb resource.

The article about the Tintic Subdivision in the previous issue generated two questions:

Q388 — Regarding the Shay locomotives, all the photos that I saw show the bevel gears completely exposed. How was this gear mechanism lubricated and kept clean? I suspect that since these locomotives were used primarily in logging and mining operations that the gears would very quickly become dirty and gritty and would therefore wear out at a rapid rate. Is that something the owners just put up with and replaced the worn parts as often as needed? Or was there some way to avoid this problem with the exposed drive train?

Q389 — Regarding the cover photo of Volume 19, Number 3 of The Streamliner, was it standard practice for road power to take oil at Tintic? I have a 1959 timetable that shows the distance from Salt Lake City to be only about 85.4 miles with only 111.8 on to Milford, Utah, which was a crew change point. Maybe it had something to do with the direction the oil was hauled to the delivery point to avoid any back haul. A list of regular fuel and water points on the California and Utah Divisions during the steam days would be very interesting.

Our mailbag brings our last question for this issue:

Q390 — I need a photo of the top covering used on a UP HK-70-1 ballast hopper. This was a top that made it a covered hopper. I am not sure when the tops were added. I have a brass model and top photo of the HK-50-4 hoppers with similar covers. I want to make a covered hopper top for an Atlas ballast car that is the HK-70-1. Can anyone help?

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 20, Number 1, Winter 2006

This column will be a little short, so we can use some space for photos sent to us in answer to a question from our last column. Remember, if you have a question (or answer), please send it our way.

From the last issue:

Q390 — I need a photo of the top covering used on a UP HK-70-1 ballast hopper. This was a top that made it a covered hopper.

A390 — It was pointed out to us that a late 1954 photo of HK-70-1 90060 with a top is on page 180 of Terry Metcalfe's book "UP Freight Cars 1936-51". Additionally, John Rieschl (with the able help of Dave Seidel) sent us several photos dated August 8, 1955, of such a cover installed on HK-70-1 690768. Many thanks to John and Dave. It appears that the cover on 90060 has two hatches per side, while the cover for 690768 has three hatches per side. Any readers know more about these cars?

And here are a couple new questions:

Q391 — What year did aluminum colored lettering replace white on steam locomotives?

A391 — Jim Ehernberger shared with us a very interesting piece from The Rawlins Republican newspaper dated Friday-September 13, 1895. Yes, this is 1895. "The Union Pacific has adopted a new standard for the lettering and numbering of its freight engines. In the future all freight engines will be lettered and numbered with aluminum leaf, which looks like silver leaf, and the passenger engines will be decorated with gold leaf." Thanks, Jim.

In the early 1900s, gold leaf was eliminated, and all UP engines were lettered with aluminum leaf. Sometime in the late 1930s or early 1940s, the Aluminum leaf was changed to Aluminum paint, which is still the standard today for UP steam locos. As far as we know, there is no documentation anywhere that states the use of white paint for the large lettering on UP steam locos. Aluminum oxide is white, and that is likely the reason for some photos appearing to have white lettering. If new information appears, we can change our thoughts.

Q392 — During what period did the Overland Shield appear on tenders?

A392 — A quick review of photos shows only medallions with "System" in the top lettering, and all the photos with medallions on the tender were dated in the early 1930s. That style medallion was used by UP from 1914 to 1933. The drawing that would document UP steam loco lettering between 1913 and 1937 is 993-CA-20035. After many years of searching, we have yet to find a copy of that drawing. Can any readers help with this question?

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 20, Number 2, Sparing 2006

A question came up recently about the types of couplers that were used on the UP turbines. Finding an answer to that question led us to do some research in several places, including various issues of The Car & Locomotive Cyclopedia. Those books are very informative about what was used in the railroad equipment industry and when. We hope you enjoy the following information on the history of couplers.

Q393 — What type of coupler was used on the front of the UP 8500 hp turbines? Is there a model version of it?

A393 — Reviewing A.J. Wolff's UP's Turbine Era book shows that the couplers used on UP Veranda (except No. 71) and 8500 hp turbines were AAR Type F "Interlocking" couplers. UP Standard Turbines (and No. 71) used AAR Type E standard freight couplers. In HO scale, Kadee offers the No. 118 coupler, which is a model of the AAR Type SF coupler. Following steps in the Kadee Instruction Sheet, it can be altered to resemble either a Type F or a Type H coupler. We do not know of any Type F coupler models in other scales.

Reviewing the 1956 Loco Cyclopedia and the 1966 and 1984 Car & Loco Cyclopedia finds the following about couplers:

Automatic couplers were mandated by the U.S. Congress in 1898 for railroad equipment in interstate commerce. While that law mandated the use of such couplers, it did not specify any particular design. By the early 1910s, several dozen designs were available with no assurance that they would couple with each other, let alone have interchangeable parts. The railroad industry soon realized that a common design standard was needed, and it started a cooperative development program for a standard coupler design.

In 1916, that development program resulted in the adoption as an industry standard of what has become known as the AAR Type D coupler design. As the railroad industry evolved in the 1910s and 1920s, improvements were made to the Type D design. But as trains continued to grow in size and speed, it became obvious that a new, stronger design needed to be developed.

That new design was called the AAR Type E coupler. It became an AAR Standard effective March 1932 for locos and cars. The Type E design is the standard freight car coupler we all know from the latter steam era, and it was still the standard freight coupler through the 1980s, though it too had many minor design improvements.

Also in the 1930s, a development program was started to design a special coupler for passenger cars. That coupler had two design goals: improve passenger comfort by reducing coupler slack, and improve passenger safety during derailment. This program resulted in the AAR Type H "Tightlock" coupler design, which became an AAR Alternate Standard in 1937 for high-speed passenger equipment. The Type H became an AAR Standard effective March 1947 and was required on all passenger equipment built after 1956. This coupler has "aligning wings" on either side of the coupler head, as well as machined contours to minimize (eliminate) slack. When two "H Tightlock" couplers are mated, the aligning wings prevent vertical movement between the couplers, which greatly improved passenger safety in derailments. These are primarily bottom-operated couplers.

In the early 1940s, a development program was started to introduce the safety features of the Type H coupler into a freight coupler, but without the expense of machined contours. That program resulted in the AAR Type F "Interlocking" coupler design, which became available for general freight service in 1947. It became an AAR Alternate Standard effective March 1954. This coupler also has aligning or interlocking wings on either side of the coupler head, similar to the Type H. Additionally, it has a "shelf" located beneath the lower front face of the coupler head and another interlocking lug beneath the shelf. The shelf is intended to retain the adjoining coupler head when its shank or draft gear fails. Two mated Type F couplers have about half the slack of two mated Type E couplers, but they have no machined coupling contours like the Type H Tightlock. When a Type F coupler is mated with either a Type H or another Type F coupler, the side aligning wings prevent vertical movement between the couplers. These may be either top or bottom operated couplers. Type H and Type F couplers look similar from the top of the coupler. The shelf and extra alignment pin on the bottom of the Type F make it distinctive. In 1970, the Type F coupler was mandated for hazardous material tank cars by the DOT/FRA.

In 1968, the Type SBE coupler was made available. It had the bottom shelf of the Type F coupler added to a standard Type E. As with the Type F, this feature was to help retain a broken coupler from an adjacent car. The Type SBE was adopted as an AAR Standard in 1980.

The safety advantages of the shelf style designs were further developed in the early 1970s with the addition of a top shelf to the Type F and Type SBE coupler. This arrangement would restrict the uncoupling of cars in a derailment even if the adjoining car had just a Type E coupler. These couplers were designated AAR Type SF and AAR Type SE, respectively. They were adopted as AAR Standards in 1975, and in the following years these couplers became required on various classes of cars by the DOT/FRA. By March 1985, all tank cars carrying regulated materials were converted to top and bottom shelf couplers.

The story of couplers to the present day is beyond our available time and research resources. Perhaps a reader can do that work and submit it to the editor for future publication.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 20, Number 3, Summer 2006

Q386 — Does anyone have a list of which UP F-units received pilot snowplows during their operating career? When did these units have the snowplow? Are there published photos of all of these units with a snowplow?

A386 — We have not yet found any official UP list of F-units with snowplows. The following list was derived from photos (some published, some not), which at the moment is the only way we know to make a listing. We would like to thank Jim Ehernberger and Don Strack for assisting in this research. While a few units had plows attached in the early 1950s, we believe that many of the snowplows were added about the time that the F3s were being rebuilt into F9s in 1958. Known F-units with snowplows (with earliest photo date) are: F3A — 1408 (1952?), 1414 (1950), 1433 (1960), 1434 (1953), 1438 (1949), 1445 (1958), 1509 (?), 1510 (?); F7A — 1483 (1960); F9A — 503 (1960), 505 (?), 507 (1969), 517 (?), 518 (1962), 527 (1960?), 539 (1963), and 540 (1968). It is believed that the snowplows were attached only to F-units that were operating in the Northwestern District, and that the snowplows stayed on those units until their retirement, even if their assignment was changed. Note that the snowplows were very similar or identical except for the unique plow on F3A 1445. More information about F-units and snowplows can be found on Don Strack's website UtahRails.net at http://www.utahrails.net/webpubs/up-f-units.php

Readers with additional information are urged to contact us.

Q394 —The flat appliances on top of UP E8s and E9s are often referred to as "snowshields". Were they really snow shields? When were they applied?

A394 — We went straight to Don Strack's website for an answer to this question. Here is a portion of what can be found at http://www.utahrails.net/up/up-diesel-story-1934-1982-c.php

On Union Pacific, by early 1955, the E8s and E9s were experiencing cooling problems, and operating officials determined that the smaller opening on the side was restricting the amount of intake air available for the engine. The road's solution was to cut an opening in the top of the winterization hatch, immediately above the reverse-mounted intake fan. Tests of this new configuration revealed that the new top opening allowed rain and snow to be pulled into the engine room, causing electrical grounds, since the electrical cabinet was located right below the intake filter box.

UP's solution to this rain and snow problem was the road's trademark "snowshields," mounted above the extra opening in the winterization hatch. Snowshields were installed on the road's E8 and E9 fleet, beginning in 1955-1956, and continuing through the late 1950s. Based on observations by railroad maintenance personnel, these snowshields may also have served to disrupt the air flow along the top of the units, much in the same way smoke lifters did on steam locomotives. This feature is unique to Union Pacific's units, and only further research will reveal its original development and purpose. (See top view photo of a UP E-unit before the modification in July 1956, in The Streamliner, Volume 8, Number 1, page 15.)

Even more information about snowshields can be found at http://www.utahrails.net/up/up-loco-features.php#snow-shields

Our thanks to Don Strack for allowing us to publish this information and for maintaining his excellent website.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 20, Number 4, Fall 2006

In addition to writing this column, we are also members of the UPHS Archives Committee. One of the projects now actively being pursued by this committee is to assemble a collection of UP Passenger Car folio diagrams, so that they may be available by the Society. These diagrams covered all UP (and subsidiary lines OSL, OWR&N and LA&SL) passenger cars from the early 1900s to the beginning of Amtrak in 1971. If you have any of these diagrams in your own collection that you are willing to share with this Society effort, please contact us immediately at the places listed below.

Speaking of passenger car diagrams, here are some questions regarding them:

Q395 — The UP diagrams for both standard clerestory-type and Harriman-style heavyweight passenger cars show 6-wheel trucks with wheelbases of 10'-6" and 11'-0". Looking at HO models of trucks for these cars, I see only 10'-6" wheelbase trucks. Does anyone make a model of the UP 11'-0" wheelbase heavyweight trucks?

Q396 — When did the format of the folio/diagram sheets change and why?

A396 — The first diagram sheets in the "new" format are believed to be the steam locomotive diagrams for the 7000 class, which were dated July 1937. A few diagram pages covering the 1930s streamline train locomotives have been found that are dated December 1937. The rest of the steam locomotives were drawn in diagrams dated 7-1-38. A complete book covering locomotives and cars in the 1st through 8th streamline trains was done and is dated 12-1-39. We do not know if any of the streamline train cars were drawn in the "old" format. The initial book of UP freight car diagrams in the "new" format was dated 7-12-41, and the initial book of UP passenger car diagrams in the "new" format was dated 10-27-41. More research is needed to better determine the accuracy of the above information and why this change occurred. Readers with additional information are urged to contact us.

Q397 — Back in 2001, class designations for UP freight cars were discussed in the Q&A Column, in Volume 15, Number 3. Those class designations appear on the UP freight car diagrams. However, there are no class designations on the UP passenger car diagrams I have. Did UP passenger cars have "classes" too?

A397— During the Harriman Era in the early 1900s, both freight and passenger cars were designated by a class number. The freight car classes had three aspects to show car type, capacity, and a sequential series number. The passenger car classes also had three aspects, but they showed car length, car type, and sequence number. These class numbers were usually on the early passenger car folio diagrams. When the format for freight and passenger diagrams was changed in 1941, the freight car diagrams continued to carry the freight car class number, whereas the new passenger diagrams did not. The reason for this is not known. Passenger cars built after 1941 do not appear to have a class number. Research continues concerning this subject.

Drawing Captions & Credits:

70-CO-S-3 Diagram — 1930 era folio diagram for class 70-CO-S-3 (the 3rd series of 70 ft. Coaches with a Smoking room) shows the class number but has no diagram number. (Dick Harley collection)

P-3-5 Diagram — 1941 era diagram for class 70-CO-S-3 does not show the class number, but has a diagram number, P-3-5 (Passenger; 3 = Coach & Chair group; 5th diagram in that group). The LA&SL class 70-CO-S-3 cars appeared on diagram P-3-16. Note expanded information in this format. (Dick Harley collection)

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley and Bob Probst

The Streamliner, Volume 21, Number 1, Winter 2007

As we mentioned in the last issue, we are now assembling a collection of UP Passenger Car folio diagrams, so that they may be made available by the Society. These diagrams covered all UP (and subsidiary lines OSL, OWR&N and LA&SL) passenger cars from the early 1900s to the beginning of Amtrak in 1971. If you have any of these diagrams in your own collection that you are willing to share with this Society effort, please contact us immediately at the places listed below. We are especially in need of diagram books from the 1950s. Please do not assume that we have copies of what you have. Your help is essential in making this project as complete as possible.

Now to some questions:

Q398 — Last summer in issue Volume 20, Number 3, it was stated that the snowshields on UP E8 and E9 units were installed beginning in 1955-1956. That is the same timeframe that diesel trucks were changed from Gray to Aluminum paint. Does anyone have or know of a photo of an E8 or E9 with a snowshield, but with Gray trucks?

Continuing with our current focus on UP Passenger Car folio diagrams, here's another diagram related question:

Q399 — I have seen UP passenger car models referred to by a UP diagram number, e.g. 69 ft. Harriman Baggage car class P-1-5. Is that a good way to designate a model?

A399 — In a word, no. Since copies of the 1941-43 UP Passenger Car Diagram books have been available over the years, many people have used those diagrams and their numbers to define various cars, because that was all they had. If UP had kept those diagram numbers with those cars, then using a diagram number to define a car would be ok. Unfortunately, UP did not do that. In September 1949, UP issued a new Passenger Car Diagram book and assigned new diagram numbers to most cars, without changing the diagram revision letter or date, or anything else on the diagram. Another diagram renumbering occurred sometime in the 1950s, but more data needs to be found to better understand that renumbering.

As for the mentioned 69 ft. Harriman-style Baggage cars on 1941 diagram P-1-5, those cars were originally designated class 69-B-1 when they were built in the 1920s. There were 57 cars listed on P-1-5 when first drawn 10-27-41. The diagram was revised 12-10-46 to revision A, including more detailed build date information. But, in the September 1949 diagram book this diagram was renumbered to P-1-4. Those cars retained that diagram number until their retirement in the 1960s. By 1962, there were 55 cars still listed on this diagram. So, if the model is of one of those cars in the post-1952 yellow & gray scheme, it would correctly be listed as being on diagram P-1-4, not P-1-5. Listing the revision and revision date would help a lot, but is not definitive.

As an example of the 1949 and 1950s diagram renumberings, we show here diagrams for the OWR&N 69 ft. Harriman-style Baggage & Postal cars 2350-2352. These cars were on diagram P-2-21 when the 1941 Passenger Car Diagram book was created. The September 1949 diagram book has them on diagram P-2-25. Later, in the 1950s (which is still being researched), the diagram was renumbered to P-2-26. The 2351 was wrecked in January 1946, and the other two cars were retired in 1958.

So, while some passenger cars did retain the same diagram number after one was first assigned in 1941, many did not. And hence, trying to describe a car by a diagram number alone is often nonspecific and potentially confusing.

Q400 — Can anyone provide consist information on the Pacific Limited in the mid to late 1940s? Specifically, was the consist all heavyweight or a mixture of heavy and lightweights? Were the cars in the two-tone gray paint scheme? When did this train cease operation?

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Q&A By Dick Harley (Q401-Q439)

Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 21, Number 2, Spring 2007

We start this column with some unfortunate news. In late February, Bob Probst had a mild stroke and some complications, and at least for a while, he will not be a part of the Q&A team. This column marks the 8th anniversary of Bob and I taking the reins of the Q&A Column. As many of you know, Bob has been very active in the UPHS in many "behind the scenes" roles. As I write this column, Bob is not able to talk or write easily, but he can read okay.

As we mentioned in the last two issues, we are now assembling a collection of UP Passenger Car folio diagrams, so that they may be made available by the Society. These diagrams covered all UP (and subsidiary lines OSL, OWR&N and LA&SL) passenger cars from the early 1900s to the beginning of Amtrak in 1971. If you have any of these diagrams in your own collection that you are willing to share with this Society effort, please contact us immediately at the places listed below. We are especially in need of diagram books from the 1950s. Please do not assume that we have copies of what you have. Your help is essential in making this project as complete as possible.

Now to some questions:

Q401 — In the August 1964 issue of Trains magazine, page 44, in discussing UP's gas turbines, mention is made of the "consideration of a Pratt & Whitney proposal to pack 15,000 h.p. into a pair of B-B-B-B's". Is there any further information on this proposed locomotive? We'd like to hear from you turbine fans about this.

Two similar questions focus on colored journal covers, so we combined them:

Q402 — It appears from color pictures that sometime in the late 1940s to early 1950s that livestock cars as well as FA, FB, and Erie-built diesels with roller bearing trucks had journal lids or covers painted yellow to indicate roller bearings. This was when the diesel trucks were still painted gray. Can anyone verify and expand on this practice?

I've read that the yellow journal box covers on some of the stock cars during the 1950s designated that they had roller bearings. From time to time, I have seen photos of gondola and box cars from that same era that also included the yellow journal box covers. Did this also identify these cars as equipped with roller bearings?

A402 — The official UP correspondence documenting the dates of this practice have not yet been found, but much anecdotal evidence exists. The special stock cars with roller bearing trucks created in 1947 for the Daylight Livestock Service (see vol.1 no.1 of The Streamliner) are the best-known cars to have journal box covers of a contrasting color. The practice was applied not only to freight cars, but also to passenger cars, and steam and diesel locos. The most common paint colors used for these journal covers were Armour Yellow or Aluminum. In the late 1940s and early 1950s, the journals so designated contained roller bearings, but that changed in the mid-1950s with the introduction on the UP of lubricating devices for solid journal bearings. The practice of contrasting color bearing caps on the UP was to designate bearings which had lubrication requirements that were different from the long traditional "waste" wadding and loose oil. That included roller bearings as well as the special lubricators for solid bearings.

The April 29, 1950, Standard Practice document for painting freight cars states that for Yellow Stock Cars the "exterior of journal box lids of roller bearing cars" be painted Armour Yellow. There is no mention of any other freight cars so painted in that document. Also, the Standard Practice documents for painting Steam and Diesel Locomotives dated April 28, 1950, and for painting Passenger Cars dated July 10, 1950 do not mention this practice at all. So, the starting dates for this practice on that equipment is uncertain. After the directive on March 29, 1955 to paint diesel and turbine loco trucks Aluminum rather than Harbor Mist Gray, a directive letter dated April 22, 1955 was sent stating: "Trucks on diesel and gas turbine units which now have journal box covers painted aluminum to indicate boxes are provided with grease lubrication, should have 3" letter "G" stenciled in black on journal box covers when entire truck is repainted to aluminum color." More research is needed to determine when contrasting color journal covers started on locomotives and passenger cars.

Freight cars with roller bearings were rare on the UP until 1960. However, the class O-70-1 tank cars in 1954 and several classes of covered hoppers in the 1950s were built with roller bearing trucks and had contrasting color journals, even though those 70-ton trucks had obvious roller bearings.

Solid journal lubricators were introduced on new UP freight cars beginning in 1955 with the class CA-6 cabooses (see photo). These special lubricators were placed inside traditional appearing journal boxes. The use of traditional "waste" wadding in these journals would have negated the function of the special lubricators, hence their covers were also painted a contrasting color to get the attention of the car maintainers. Other classes of new freight cars built between 1956 and 1959 that were equipped with solid journal lubricators include: A-50-24, B-50-46 to B-50-50, BC-50-1 to BC-50-4, F-70-1, G-70-4 and G-70-5, CH-70-7, and CA-7 caboose. They all had contrasting color journal box lids.

So, not all colored journal boxes contained roller bearings. It seems probable that the scheme was implemented to keep yard crews from stuffing waste wadding into journals that should not have it. The date for ending this practice has not yet been determined. Readers with more information are urged to contact us.

Q403 — I have a question related to the early series Challengers. How did the engineer actuate the whistle? Most photos of the era did not focus on boiler tops and whistles. I have seen a couple photos in Kratville's book, but I cannot determine how the whistle valve near the stack was connected to the cab.

Q404 — As always, enjoyed The Streamliner, especially the Wreck of the Transcon by Jeff Asay. The photos on pages 22 and 25 raise some questions for me. The locomotive stack clearly shows three stacks. I always understood that the FEF-2 and FEF-3 locos had twin stacks. When did 835 receive this stack? How long did it have it? And what other FEF class locos had similar triple stacks?

Photo Caption

CA-6 caboose truck — This inside swing hanger CA-6 caboose truck not only has a contrasting color on the journal box lid, but it has been stenciled: "Use No Waste, NMB Co." The journal box contains a journal lubricator from National Motor Bearing Company.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 21, Number 3, Summer 2007

We are still looking for more UP Passenger Car folio diagrams. Please help, if you can.

Now to some questions and answers, starting with questions from the last issue:

Q403 — I have a question related to the early series Challengers. How did the engineer actuate the whistle? Most photos of the era did not focus on boiler tops and whistles. I have seen a couple photos in Kratville's book, but I cannot determine how the whistle valve near the stack was connected to the cab.

A403 — John Bush wrote to us: "Regarding actuation of the whistle on the early UP Challengers, it might first appear that the locomotives were fitted with air-operated whistle valves, which was becoming more and more commonplace across the country. However, UP continued use of the classic manual operation via whistle lever in the cab which was connected to the usual lever on the whistle valve at the base of the whistle. A conduit, through which a chain or cable joined the cab and whistle levers, was hidden beneath the boiler jacket. On the Union Pacific, virtually all earlier classes of engines had whistles placed just ahead of cabs and utilized iron or steel rods as connection between the engineer's whistle lever and the whistle. However, commencing with the early Challengers and continuing through all the other late power, the railroad located whistles near or behind the stack. Apparently, the steel rod connection was found impractical over the extended length of the boilers. UP thus opted for cables or chain, passing within the above-mentioned conduit. Drawings for all the late 4-6-6-4's, 4-8-4's and all 4-8-8-4's indicate use of "bicycle chain" within the conduit. I'm not yet certain the early Challengers used this chain from new, but by the time of the early-war steam deliveries it appears clear the chain was included in new construction. Certainly, the early Challengers were fitted with the chains as time passed, even if not built new that way." Thanks John, for this answer.

Q404 — The photos on pages 22 and 25 in the article "Wreck of the Transcon" by Jeff Asay show loco 835's stack has three stacks. I always understood that the FEF-2 and FEF-3 locos had twin stacks. When did 835 receive this stack? How long did it have it? And what other FEF class locos had similar triple stacks?

A404 — The three-stack arrangement for FEFs was proposed in cost estimates dated May 17, 1946. UP drawing 744-CA-33003 "Smoke Stack Arrangement, (Three Smoke Stacks)" was issued 8-30-46. It was to be used on FEF-2 and FEF-3 locos as a "Test Application". The stack base casting shown on that drawing is the same as for the stock FEF-3 double stack, though it is modified for the three stacks. The stacks themselves are 16" diameter choke and 19" inside diameter (ID) at the top, whereas the stock FEF-3 double stacks were 21.5" diameter choke and 26.5" top ID. The most common term in the literature for this arrangement seems to be "triple stack".

Air (smoke) flow experimentation with the FEF-3s was extensive, including the famous wind wings. One experiment was a "Smoke Stack Shroud" that is shown on drawing 754-CA-32001 issued 2-12-45, to be used on FEF-3s. This shroud extended back from the standard FEF-3 double stack casing, and it is sometimes confused with the later triple stacks. A photo of this shroud can see seen on page 70 of the UPHS publication Union Pacific Prototype Locomotive Photos, volume 5.

No shop records have yet been found to date the actual installation of these triple stacks. Photographic evidence shows that triple stacks were applied to FEF-3s 835, 837, and 839, and later to FEF-2 831. The statement in Kratville's The Mighty 800 book that 832 also was triple stacked appears to be in error. Photo research to date indicates that the triple stacks were installed after the FEFs had been converted to oil fuel in 1946. While 835, 837 and 831 appear to only have sheet metal plates on the side of the stacks, 839 received a full casing (like the stock double stack FEF-3s) around its three stacks, making it slightly harder to identify. A good identifier is the air pump exhaust steam pipe entering the side of the stacks between the second and third stack. It appears that all four of these engines kept their triple stacks until retirement.

Photos of the three FEF-3 locos with triple stacks can be found in the UPHS publication Union Pacific Prototype Locomotive Photos, volume 5. More photo research is being done.

Our thanks to Gordon McCulloh, John Bush, Steve Orth, and the UPHS Archive Committee for help with this answer.

Now a couple of new questions:

Q405 — I have a question about the UP Employee Timetables that were issued in the 1980s. I have a copy of System Timetable #1 dated 4/28/85 and a copy of System Timetable #3 dated 4/27/86. I have been watching for a number of years, and I have never seen the UP #2, which should have been dated in Oct 85, if it followed the normal pattern. Do you know if there was a #2 issued in that timeframe (between #1 and #3) or was it skipped? If there was a #2, do you know the date on the timetable?

A405 — Jim Ehernberger sent this very interesting answer to this question: "I was given charge for making UP employee timetables at that time as Manager of Operating Rules. UP management wanted a consolidated issue, so I spent many hours preparing TT #1, including many trips to Omaha to work with the printer. The merger was already taking hold, and the MP had also started out with a TT #1 in April of 1985, the same date as the UP, because that's the date when the General Code of Operating Rules went into effect.

However, in the meantime the MP also issued a #2, but the UP did not.

Then, management wanted only one System TT, so we all headed to Texas (Charles P. Young Printing Co. had the contract) to consolidate the entire system, and that's UP TT #3, which leaves UP #2 vacant. If you've seen these and compared them, the name Missouri Pacific was on TT #1 and 2 issued by that RR, and Union Pacific is shown on our TT #1, but TT#3 only had union pacific, and never again was a Missouri Pacific TT issued." Thanks very much Jim, for that information.

Q406 — When were rotating amber beacons first applied to UP diesel cab roofs, and which diesel model was the first to have them? Were they applied to all UP diesels? What was the last new unit to have them? When were they removed and why?

Q407 — Which FEF steam locos received Worthington SA feedwater heaters?

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 21, Number 4, Fall 2007

I'd like to do something a little different from the usual questions and answers for this issue. A question came in recently that caused me to dig into my UP Public Timetable collection and made me realize that some more organization was needed. In the process of reviewing and filing those timetables, I came across some fascinating information (I occasionally get seriously distracted), which I would like to share with you.

The timetable that really caught my fancy was from May 1st, 1899. Yes, that's 1899. It is in marvelous shape for being over 100 years old. The first obvious change from timetables of the 1940s to 1960s is that the system maps were very different. They included the Southern Pacific routes, but the LA&SL was not built yet. Not a surprise, but interesting.

The lists of equipment and "Time Overland" were quite different. The top trains, Nos. 1 and 2 The Overland Limited, took over 3 days to cross half the country. Westbound, No. 1 left Omaha at 8:50 AM and arrived in Los Angeles at 1:20 PM. Eastbound, No. 2 left Los Angeles at 10:20 PM and arrived in Omaha at 4:45 PM, almost four days later. Admittedly that is a major improvement over an 1850's wagon train trip, but the diesel-powered streamliners did Chicago to Los Angeles in about half that time.

In addition to the usual lists of stations and times, this timetable had a section titled "Towns, Opera Houses, Names of Managers, Etc., on or reached via the UNION PACIFIC", which listed towns from Council Bluffs to Seattle to Los Angeles. This list had columns for Town name, Population, Name of Opera House, Seating Capacity, Size of Stage, Names of Managers, Terms, and Newspapers. The list included over 350 opera houses. The largest town was San Francisco at 300,000 people (5 opera houses and 9 newspapers), and second was Kansas City, Missouri at 185,000 (6 opera houses and 4 newspapers. Third was Denver at 155,000 people (4 opera houses and 4 newspapers), and fourth was Omaha with 140,000 folks (2 opera houses — the Creighton Orpheum and Boyd's Theatre; and 3 newspapers — the Bee, World-Herald, and the German Tribune).

But more interesting than the large towns were the small ones. Osceola, Nebraska had a population of 950, but it had an opera hall seating 700 and three newspapers. Plainville, Kansas had a population of just 500, yet its Opera Hall seated 800, and they had two newspapers. Brighton, Colorado's 350 residents enjoyed the Carmichael Opera House seating 1,000 with a 35x55 stage, though they only had a single newspaper — the Register. The smallest town listed was Beverly, Kansas where the population was 225, yet the Fletcher Hall seated 400 to view its 20x36 foot stage. Beverly had no listed newspaper. Obviously, people in the late 19th century valued entertainment, and they did not find it on 200+ cable TV channels. One might guess that this information was included in the timetable for the convenience of traveling entertainers.

The last major section of this timetable was titled "Interesting Information Concerning Towns on UNION PACIFIC." Beverly, Kansas (on the Colby Branch) was listed here as follows: "Population 210. Two elevators, creamery. Hotels: Tremont $1.00, Commercial $1.00." The entry for Brighton, Colorado was: "Population 350. Town is lighted by gas generating lamps. Barr Lake, four miles from town, duck hunting and fishing. Creamery, Pickle Co., numerous irrigation ditches. Favorite resort for invalids, dry air, good water, abundance of shade, comfortable home places for board. Excellent church and school facilities. Hotels: Platte Valley $1.00 to $2.00, Temperance House $1.00, both American plan." Much more data was listed for the larger towns — fascinating stuff from another era.

Next issue we will be back to our usual format of questions and answers. So, if you have any questions or know some of the answer to a previously published question, please send it. I hope you have enjoyed this little diversion into history.

We are still looking for more UP Passenger Car folio diagrams. Please help, if you can.

A note to those who enjoy the new SD70ACe heritage painted diesels, get yourself a copy of the 2008 UPRR calendar. It features steam and diesel heritage equipment.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 22, Number 1, Winter 2008

Winter is here, and it's a good time to sort through those accumulated photos and documents to help answer a Q&A question or start an article for The Streamliner. If you have been collecting UP materials, now would be a good time to start that research project, when staying inside is an attractive choice. We are going to list several questions this time that need input from readers for an answer. So please help, if you can.

Before we get to those questions, I'd like to mention a book I recently purchased, that I think some of you may find very interesting and useful. The book is "Union Pacific Steam Survivors" by Lloyd E. Stagner and Bob Yarger. It lists all of the UP steam locomotives that still exist today, where they are, and their status and condition. This is a tremendous help to those folks who wish to examine and measure a real loco for a modeling project. Similar listings for other locomotives and rolling stock, as well as depots and other buildings would be an equally valuable resource. Such a project seems like a natural for the UPHS, with members scattered around the country to do local research. Are any members of the UPHS Board of Directors reading this?

Now for some new questions:

Q408 — I know Union Pacific had express boxcars. Did UP ever have an express freight service that would have complemented or competed with the Railway Express Agency? When and where did it operate, and what cars did it use?

An article in The Streamliner, vol.19, no.2 prompted this question:

Q409 — If a diesel yard switcher was based at La Salle, Colorado in the spring and summer of 1953, what type and road number was the locomotive?

Q410 — Besides Dark Olive (C.S.22, No.1), was there a different color of dark green, such as Pullman Green, that was used on UP passenger cars?

A410 — No, at least not in the twentieth century. Ever since the Harriman Common Standard colors were initiated, Dark Olive was the only dark green color specified for UP passenger cars.

And here are some questions that still need reader input:

Q328 — When anthem. were the "fins" added to the roofs of the dome passenger cars, and which cars received them? When and why were they removed, and which cars?

Q342 — When were the large, full-length facia boards removed from the S-40-1 (and —2 & -3) stock cars?

Q344 — What year did UP install the winterization hatches on the F3/F7's? And were they a "permanent" installation, or removed seasonally?

Q392 — During what time period did the Overland Shield appear on tenders?

A392 — A quick review of photos shows only medallions with "System" in the top lettering, and all the photos with medallions on the tender were dated in the early 1930s. That style medallion was used by UP from 1914 to 1933. The drawing that would document UP steam loco lettering between 1913 and 1937 is 993-CA-20035. After many years of searching, we have yet to find a copy of that drawing. Can any readers help with this question?

Q401 — In the August 1964 issue of Trains magazine, page 44, in discussing UP's gas turbines, mention is made of the "consideration of a Pratt & Whitney proposal to pack 15,000 h.p. into a pair of B-B-B-B's". Is there any further information on this proposed locomotive? We'd like to hear from you turbine fans about this.

One last time, if you have any UP passenger car diagrams, please contact us.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 22, Number 2, Spring 2008

Some letters in the RPO column for this issue deserve a few comments. First, F. Vernon Hudnut writes about several items. His comments about "number boards" versus "train indicators" are probably correct for the steam era, but somewhere along the line the term "number boards" became at least an official title on UP diesel PL&N drawings. So, "number boards" is not just a railfan/modeler term but was used in official UP diesel documents. This subject requires more research, and we should have further information next issue. He also comments about the color name "Dark Green Flat Paint" versus "Anti-Glare Green". Most of the time, I try to use color names that come straight from the UP drawings or Color Standards and are well documented. That is the case with "Dark Green Flat Paint". The name "Anti-Glare Green" is used on EMD painting drawings, but I do not recall ever seeing it on a UP drawing. So, we are sticking with "Dark Green", knowing it is used on dozens of UP diesel drawings. And lastly, he mentions a reason for using Aluminum paint on trucks. An additional reason I have heard advocated is that the Aluminum paint made it easier to detect cracks in the truck castings.

Howard Samarin's letter asks about PMS (Pantone Matching System) color references for UP paint colors. The Pantone system was developed to allow graphic designers to specify a color and know what they will get in the end product. It has at most, a few thousand colors, depending on which Pantone system is used. Your average home computer can show more than 16 million colors, and even that does not cover the entire spectrum of color. Unfortunately, there are no good color matches in the Pantone system for UP Armour Yellow, or Harbor Mist Gray, or Bright Red. In spite of that, the UP Licensee Manual in 2002 listed Pantone numbers as follows: Armour Yellow — Pantone 116 Yellow-coated and 108 Yellow-uncoated; Harbor Mist Gray — Pantone Cool Gray 10; and Union Pacific Red — Pantone 186 Red. I do not know how those numbers were determined, but they are a poor match for the yellow and red Color Drift Control cards, in my opinion. I think Pantone 124C is a better (though still not correct) match to Armour Yellow. I would not recommend using those references to paint your models.

We have a combination of old and new questions this issue, so let's get to it.

Q407 — Which FEF (4-8-4) steam locos received Worthington SA feedwater heaters?

A407 — No official shop records have been found, but photograph inspection has confirmed that the following list of engines did have these feedwater heaters. There may be a few more.

FEF engines with Worthington SA Feedwater Heaters include: FEF-1s 801, 802, 804, 808, 809, 816; FEF-2s 823, 828, 829, 830, 833; and FEF-3s 835, 837, 839, 841, 843 and 844. Interestingly, 804 and 809 also received FEF-3 style double-stacks at the time of the SA installation (as well as longer smokeboxes — more on that in the next issue). Also note that 835, 837 and 839 all had triple-stacks, though they were installed long before the SA feedwater heaters. Readers are encouraged to add to the list. We'll have some drawings and more information in a future issue. Thanks to George Anderson, Sandy McCulloh and Bob Probst for help with this answer.

Q411 — I've got a question pertaining to whether Portland Rose china was ever used on the "City of Portland" train? I'm guessing that the Winged Streamliner was the pattern used most often on the City trains, but I am curious about other patterns used on the COP.

Q412 — When did UP abolish the San Bernardino Helper Board? How many crews were assigned there at the end, and what was the power being used?

A recent discussion on an Internet message site led to some more questions about Two-Tone Gray painted steam locos.

Q413 —Did UP 4-8-2s and 4-6-2s painted TTG between 1947 and June 1949 receive Armour Yellow or Silver (Striping) Gray lettering and striping? Did the 4-6-6-4s that received TTG paint for passenger service get Silver (Striping) Gray lettering and striping after mid-1949?

Color photos are the only sure way known to verify this. Let us know what you find.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 22, Number 3, Summer 2008

In the Fall 2007 issue, we wrote about some interesting information we had found in an old UP Public Timetable. One thing we forgot to mention then is that there is a very useful publication from the Colorado Railroad Museum that lists all of the UP Public Timetables from 1869 to 1971. It was compiled by Kenton Forrest, and it is titled Public Timetables of the Union Pacific Railroad. We highly recommend it to anyone interested in reading or collecting UP public timetables.

Last issue, we had a question regarding the installation of Worthington SA feedwater heaters in FEF steam locos, and an answer listing the known engines which received them. This issue, we'd like to add a few comments about the modifications made to the FEF-1 and FEF-2 engines that were required for installation of those feedwater heaters.

Q407 — Which FEF (4-8-4) steam locos received Worthington SA feedwater heaters?

A407 (continued) — In addition to the listing of FEF engines published earlier, it should be noted that the FEF-1 and FEF-2 engines which had the Worthington type 5-SA feedwater heaters installed also had their smokeboxes extended forward to accommodate that feedwater heater. As built, the length of the smokebox for these locos, from the center of the steam chest to the front of the smokebox, was as follows: FEF-1 53-1/16"; FEF-2 50"; and FEF-3 62". The FEF-1 locos had their smokebox extended forward 9", and the FEF-2 locos had their smokebox extended forward 12" to accommodate the 5-SA feedwater heater. These extensions are noted on drawings 566-CA-33905, rev. C, dated 8-10-53 (FEF-1) and 566-CA-33906 rev. E, dated 8-10-53 (FEF-2). Previously published information that the FEF-3s also had their smokeboxes extended is in error. The earliest dated photos located so far of FEFs with a Worthington 5-SA feedwater heater installed are FEF-3 #841 on May 26, 1953; FEF-2 #823 on October 7, 1953; and FEF-1 #804 on July 4, 1954. Photo research continues.

Now for a couple new questions:

Q414 — Back in 2001, a question (Q336) dealt with passenger train engine crews between Salt Lake City and Ogden. The answer said that the crews went over to Ogden in the morning on an east bound and returned that evening on a westbound. I was recently rereading my copy of Ogden Rails, and I couldn't help but wonder how the freight crews were assigned. Did thru freight have the same short run as passenger? The caption with the photo on page 87 of Don Strack's book infers that there may have been a short freight district between the two terminals, too. Any ideas?

Q415 — I recently saw that Classic Metal Works is producing an HO scale UP painted GM PD-4103 bus for Walthers. While I do not model the UP, I was curious if the UP did actually own buses of this type, or if this is a "fictional" thing? Thank you for your help.

A415 — An article in The Streamliner, volume 17, number 2 says that the Union Pacific Stage Company purchased ten GM model PDA-4101 buses (which had the destination sign above the windshield) in May 1949 for service in California. It says that 8 of them lasted to the end of passenger service in 1971. It does not mention any GM model PD-4103 buses used by UP. Whether PD-4103 buses (with destination sign below the windshield) were used by UP is unknown, but without some evidence, we would guess not.

So, it appears that Walthers has taken some liberty in painting Union Pacific on a bus that was similar, but not prototypically correct.

Please don't forget this question from last issue. We need your help in locating color photos.

Q413 — Did UP 4-8-2s and 4-6-2s painted TTG between 1947 and June 1949 receive Armour Yellow or Silver (Striping) Gray lettering and striping? Did the 4-6-6-4s that received TTG paint for passenger service get Silver (Striping) Gray lettering and striping after mid-1949?

Color photos are the only sure way known to verify this. Let us know what you find.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 22, Number 4, Fall 2008

Looking back through previous columns we find some questions that still need answers. If you have even a partial answer or information, please contact us:

Q382 — My question deals with the Denver Pacific, and later the UP's "Greeley Line", during the years 1870 to 1920. I am specifically interested in locating data with respect to the number of car loadings, by station, beginning with Brighton to Nunn, during this period. Ideally, the data would include the nature and quantity of the products loaded. This data is to be used in an economic history of central Weld County, Colorado. I realize that such data may be difficult to obtain, but I am hoping that a reader can provide a lead as to where this data could be found.

Q388 — Regarding the Shay locomotives, all the photos that I saw show the bevel gears completely exposed. How was this gear mechanism lubricated and kept clean? I suspect that since these locomotives were used primarily in logging and mining operations that the gears would very quickly become dirty and gritty and would therefore wear out at a rapid rate. Is that something the owners just put up with and replaced the worn parts as often as needed? Or was there some way to avoid this problem with the exposed drive train?

Q398 — In issue Volume 20, Number 3, it was stated that the snowshields on UP E8 and E9 units were installed beginning in 1955-1956. That is the same timeframe that diesel trucks were changed from Gray to Aluminum paint. Does anyone have or know of a photo of an E8 or E9 with a snowshield, but with Gray trucks?

Now for a few new questions:

Q416 — Some UPHS members in Oregon and Idaho have been following the activity of a relatively new coal train on the UP. The train is identified as CSVWO and CWOSV. They would like more information about this train.

A416 — It is believed that the SV stands for the Savage Coal Terminal in Price, Utah. The destination is thought to be an export facility in British Columbia, Canada. However, the UPHS website list of Train Symbols (http://www.uphs.org/trainsymbols.htm) shows WO to be in Minnesota. Do any readers have more information and details on this train and its destination?

Q417 — I am interested in modeling a Union Pacific Streamliner, possibly the City of St. Louis in the 1950s or 1960s. Any suggestions on books I may purchase that give excellent photos of the cars? I would love to be able to apply names and numbers to specific styles of cars.

A417 — The most complete book on UP Streamliners is titled "The Union Pacific Streamliners" by Ranks & Kratville. It is a substantial book with the history of all UP streamliners from 1934 to the beginning of Amtrak in 1971. It covers operations and equipment.

If you are interested in the City of St. Louis specifically, there is a magazine style publication from the Terminal Railroad Assoc. of St. Louis Historical & Technical Society, which is very good. It is Issue 37/38, Spring/Summer 1996 of the association magazine. See: http://trra-hts.railfan.net/issue3738.html

Another source of info on modeling UP streamliners is the annual magazine Union Pacific Modeler published by Metcalfe Publications in the 1990s. (Terry Metcalfe is now deceased, but some stores may still have the old magazines.) There were four issues, and each one had info on different passenger trains to model.

Q418 — My question is one of fuel for the locomotives during the 1890-1910 period. I know that coal was predominant with the OR&N, OSL and UP at that time, but wonder if yard switching engines would ever have used oil, particularly the saddle tank 0-6-0's?

A418 — Our main steam historian Gordon (Sandy) McCulloh tells us:

"Based on Albina Shop records, oil conversions began on the OR&N in 1905. At least some OR&N Consolidations, Eight and Ten Wheelers were converted to use oil fuel near that time. Lacking complete records, it is impossible to determine exactly how many of what class were done and when." Thanks, Sandy. It should be noted that the saddle tank 0-6-0T shop goats were created after 1910. The oil burners were 010998 and 010999 created in 1924 and 4407 created in 1947. Also, the SPLA&SL used oil fuel from the beginning.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 23, Number 1, Winter 2009

This issue marks the end of the 10th year we have been writing this column — how time flies. We hope you have enjoyed reading these columns and have learned a bit in the process. This column will deal with a single subject — passenger (sleeping) car "line numbers".

Q419 — A reader had found a letter from his father written aboard the eastbound City of Los Angeles in November 1947, east of Salt Lake City. It was snowing like crazy, and the father wrote, "My car, #1045, is the tail-end car." The reader wanted to find out what type of car was car #1045?

A419 — Since 1045 is not the road number of any UP lightweight passenger car, let alone a "tail-end car", it was quickly determined that 1045 was not the UP car road number. And the only sleeper/observation car used on the COLA at that time was the "Baldy Mountain". So, why had the father written that he was in car #1045? The reason is that #1045 was the Pullman line number, which was used by passengers to find the right car for their reservation. Dave Seidel kindly provided us with the following explanation of those numbers.

For reservations and ticketing, the railroads and Pullman used a system of "line numbers" (also known as "loading numbers") for the sleeping cars used for service. A letter/number system was used by Pullman from the early days of its operations up until about 1946. Then, a new system was started that used the train number and the location of the car in that train. An example of a "line" would be to provide sleeper accommodations of compartments, bedrooms and drawing rooms between Chicago and Portland. This "line" would use a 2 drawing rooms — 4 compartment — 4-bedroom type car with a line number of "1054" (C&NW/UP train 105 and car 4). The "line" number would be based on the original train/location of that sleeper. A sleeper that would be interchanged to other trains would carry the original number until the competition of its journey. At first, only the sleepers were given "line" or "loading" numbers, however, in time the coaches were also given a number due to the newer reservation systems the railroads were adopting.

An example of a train consist with "line" numbers is the C&NW/UP City of Los Angeles, train 103, westbound at Omaha, Nebraska on October 11, 1955, shown in the accompanying table.

In the 1960s, the UP line number system reflected the changes of traffic and combination of trains. The combination of the "City of Everywhere", in the mid and late 1960s, reflected this change the most. Chicago — Los Angles cars had "line" numbers of 103_/104_, but cars to other destinations were assigned other numbers, even though in the same train. The Chicago — Portland cars carried "line" numbers 105_/106_ (cars cut-off/added at Green River); Chicago — Denver cars carried 111_/112_ (cars cut-off/added at North Platte); Chicago — Oakland cars carried 101_/102_ (cars cut-off/added at Ogden); and St Louis — Los Angeles cars carried 9_/10_ (cars added/cut-off at Cheyenne). During the summer months, the additional business reflected the former Streamlined Challenger service with Chicago — Los Angeles cars carrying 107_/108_ line numbers. Short-haul coaches were sometimes added between points such as: Kansas City — Denver, KC-1 & KC-2; Omaha — Los Angeles OM-1 & OM-2; and Salt Lake City — Los Angeles LA-1 & LA-2. (One or more cars could be added with even numbers for east-bounds and odd numbers for west-bounds.) The St Louis — Portland train, Portland Rose, cars carried line numbers 17_/18_. At times, the coaches of the City of Los Angeles (trains 103 & 104) were given a two-digit "line" number: 3_ for westbound train 103 and 4_ for eastbound train 104.

Each "line" had a certain car type associated with it to ensure correct space reservations. However, if the regular car type was unavailable, a different type of car could be used. This was always a major problem for the railroads. The ticket agents and conductors would have to do what they could to accommodate the passengers. In most cases, the car substituted would be an up-graded type of car; only rarely was a lesser type of car used. For example, in the case where a 6section — 6-roomette — 4-bedroom car (26 passengers) was replaced with a 10-roomette — 6-bedrooms car (22 passengers), the lucky passenger that bought a section would get a roomette. In a very rare case, that lucky passenger could even get a bedroom. But a fully reserved 6-6-4 car would have too many passengers to fit in a 10-6 car.

It should also be noted that the type of car and related "line" number didn't stay the same over the years. Due to changes of passenger traffic, equipment types would be varied to reflect those changes. Examples: At times "line" 1044 would be a 6-section — 6-roomette — 4-bedroom car (26 passengers) and other times it would be a 10-section — 6-bedroom car (22 passengers); and "line" 1041 (or 41 when the two-digit system was used) would be a coach sometimes and then at another time would be a dome coach.

Thanks Dave, for that information.

Train 103, COLA, westbound at Omaha, Nebraska on October 11, 1955

Note: Car added at Omaha.

Photo Captions

1941 Pullman-built Chair Car 5335 displays Line Number 282 in the window near vestibule while on the San Francisco Overland. Oakland, Calif., June 1953. Bob's Photo, Dick Harley collection.

1950 Pullman-built Chair Car 5401 displays Line Number 1067 in a special panel near vestibule while on the City Of Portland. Portland, Oregon, April 1971. Bob's Photo, Dick Harley collection.

1960 St. Louis Car-built Chair Car 5498 displays Line Number 1058 in a special panel near vestibule while on the City Of Portland. Portland, Oregon, April 1971. Bob's Photo, Dick Harley collection.

1939 Pullman-built Sleeper "Denargo" displays Line Number 1113 in the window near vestibule while on the City of Denver. Denver, Colo., July 1950. Bob's Photo, Dick Harley collection.

1949 Budd Co.-built Sleeper "Pacific Command" displays Line Number 1021 in a special panel near vestibule while on the City of San Francisco. Chicago, Illinois, July 1971. Owen Leander photo, Dick Harley collection.

1965 Pullman-rebuilt Sleeper "Star Scene" displays Line Number 1035 in a special panel beside vestibule door while on the City of Los Angeles. Omaha, Nebraska, 1962. Don Degner photo, Dick Harley collection.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 23, Number 2, Spring 2009

We feel it is very important to present the most accurate information possible in The Streamliner and in this column in particular. However, occasionally something gets published that is not accurate, and it needs to be corrected as soon as possible. That is the case with our column in the last (Winter 2009) issue. Several conclusions were incorrectly jumped to in the process of investigating the question about car #1045 on the eastbound City of Los Angeles in November 1947. Shortly after that column was sent to the printer, I discovered in my files a UP document from July 1947 titled UPRR Complete List of Pullman Sleeping Cars, No. 16 (Pullman still owned sleeping cars at that time) that shed much additional light on this subject. That document lists both a UP Car Number and Pullman Line Number, as well as Capacity (type of car), Route and Train Number for all sleeping cars on the UP. Also, shortly after publication of that issue of The Streamliner, Jeff Koeller sent a letter pointing out some of the errors of what was written.

One of my major misunderstandings that needed straightened out is the fact that UP Car Numbers, or passenger loading numbers, were separate and distinct from Pullman Line Numbers, which referred to Pullman operating Lines, which were apparently used for mileage accounting and billing for Pullman service (more on this in a later issue). Vocabulary is important in discussing factual events. We feel it is very important to correctly use the words chosen by Union Pacific and other railroad organizations when discussing railroad operations and equipment, even if those words were sometimes used in other ways by operating railroad employees. In our mind, the organization sets the meaning of its printed words.

The original question involved what we now know was a UP Car Number, and I believe that the post-WWII version of those is fairly well understood. That Car Number assignment system used the train number and the car's location in the train to establish its car number. At first, only the sleepers were given car numbers, however, after the reserved seat chair cars were introduced, they were eventually also given a number. Any reserved accommodation needed a way to be identified. A sleeper or chair car that would be interchanged to another train would carry the original car number until the competition of its journey -the carriers didn't want through passengers wondering where their car went. Car Numbers were used by ticketing agents and train crews to let passengers know where their reserved accommodations could be in the train. Whether passengers were told or were aware of Pullman Line Numbers is uncertain.

The method of assigning Car Numbers pre-1940 or exactly when Car Numbers were started is still unclear to us. We are still seeking much more information about the Pullman Line Number system, so that it can be explained in a future issue of The Streamliner. If any readers can help with knowledge of either system, please contact us as listed below.

So, it became very clear that a new answer to this question was truly needed. With much help from Jeff Koeller and more help from Dave Seidel, I believe the following to be accurate and correct. Please let me know if it's not.

Q419 — A reader had found a letter from his father written aboard the eastbound City of Los Angeles in November 1947, east of Salt Lake City. It was snowing like crazy, and the father wrote, "My car, #1045, is the tail-end car." The reader wanted to find out what type of car was car #1045.

A419 (corrected) — Since 1045 is not the road number of any UP lightweight passenger car, let alone a "tail-end car," it was quickly determined that 1045 was not the UP car road number. The COLA had begun daily service on May 14, 1947, with four trainsets of cars. At first, one of those trainsets used the 1941-built 4 Double Bedroom-Observation car Baldy Mountain. A similar car, Russian Hill, was on the City of San Francisco. So, Baldy Mountain had seemed to be a probable answer, since we were looking for a sleeper-observation car. However, the UP document UPRR Complete List of Pullman Sleeping Cars shows why that was not the case.

The first issue of that document we saw was issue No. 16 dated July 6, 1947, which shows both Baldy Mountain and Russian Hill on the COLA, but with a UP Car Number of #1046 (train #104, 6th sleeping car) on the 9th (Pullman Line No. 4338) and 16th (Pullman Line No. 4330 [typo, should be 4338)) trainsets. The 7th and 9th trains have Car Number #1045 (train #104, 5th sleeping car) being a 2 Drawing Room-4 Compartment-4 Double Bedroom sleeper (both Pullman Line No. 4330). And the 16th and 17th trains have Car Number #1045 being a 6 Section-6 Roomette-4 Double Bedroom sleeper (Pullman Line No. 4339 [typo?] and 4309 respectively).

Further investigation showed that issue No. 17 of that document dated September 1, 1947, had Car Number #1045 being the same type 2-4-4 cars (Pullman Line No. 4330) on the 7th and 9th trains and type 6-6-4 cars (Pullman Line No. 4309) on the 16th and 17th trains, but the Baldy Mountain and Russian Hill were no longer on the COLA trains, and there was no car #1046. This may be another typo, since Baldy Mountain, was reportedly still on one COLA trainset.

Finally, we found issue No. 18 dated November l, 1947 which showed one of the 4 Double Bedroom-Observation cars (not specified which one, Pullman Line No. 4338) on the 9th train as car #1046 and the same type 2-4-4 and 6-6-4 cars on the four trainsets respectively as Car Number #1045.

So, now we know that the father's Car Number #1045 was not a sleeper-observation car (as one might have guessed), but we still don't know in what type of car he was riding. Here is where another detail from the letter falls into place and tells the story. The father's letter was dated "11/7/47 9:30 am 50 miles beyond Salt Lake toward Wyoming", which means he left Los Angeles on the COLA scheduled at 5:00 p.m. the afternoon of November 6, 1947. Some additional data in the sleeping car list documents is the train-set number and departure dates

for both the City of Los Angeles and the City of San Francisco. The COLA leaving Los Angeles on November 6, 1947, was scheduled to be the 17th Train. Thus, the questioner's father was very likely riding in an "American" series (the only UP choice) 6-6-4 sleeper as he wrote to his son-assuming a normal trainset that day. Which one of the ''American" sleepers is still unknown.

Thanks very much to both Dave Seidel and Jeff Koeller for their assistance. We have included the above details to give you some ideas of the way questions are researched and to also show how much passenger train consists varied between trainsets and changed with time. Also note that after daily service started in 1947, most of the UP standard-height streamliners did not have an observation car as the last car in the train. There were only four standard-height non-dome lightweight UP observation cars-the 1937-built Sun Valley and Nob Hill, and the 1941-built Baldy Mountain and Russian Hill.

Much more needs to be researched, understood and written about UP Car Numbers and Pullman Line Numbers. That writing will most likely be an article in The Streamliner, since it should be much more than normally appears in this column. Readers with knowledge and/or data on either of these number systems are encouraged to contact us as listed below, or the editor.

A419 —Jeff Koeller letter dated February 2009:

I read with interest the "answer" to question Q419 on page 37 in the Winter 2009 issue of The Streamliner magazine. This concerns car #1045 in the eastward City of Los Angeles circa 1947. The lengthy answer was a blend of subjects in which "Car Numbers" were intermixed with and referred to as "Line Numbers." This is incorrect as these are two unrelated numbering systems. Further elaboration is required to clarify the difference.

First, the "Car Number" (also known as the "loading number") was part a system of identifying which revenue car in a particular train that a ticketed passenger was assigned to. The car number simply consisted of the train number, plus the car's position in the train. The car number was displayed either in a car window or in a small number box located in the car side and should not be confused with the car's road number. In the late 1940s, the sleeping car numbers were assigned from the most forward car to the rear, but in the mid-1950s the system evolved with the sleepers numbered from the rear going forward to and including the coaches.

The car in question, #1045, represents the fifth sleeper in train No. 104, the eastward daily City of Los Angeles. By checking UP sleeping car circular No. 18 issued for 11/1/47, it can be observed that car #1045 was either a 4 Compartment-4 Double Bedroom-2 Drawing Room sleeper or a 6 Section-6 Roomette-4 Double Bedroom sleeper, depending on which train consist was being operated. However, since the writer's relative was riding the "tail-end car," it was probably one of the American-class 6-6-4 sleeping cars operating in end-of-train service on the 16th and 17th COLA consists in late-1947 and 1948. The actual departure date of the ticket would help to verify this.

Secondly, a "Line" was basically a car routing for Pullman-owned cars operating from one city to another (Chicago to Los Angeles for example). There were literally thousands of Lines with each route having its own assigned "Line Number." The Lines were created for mileage accounting and billing purposes, and every route, no matter how many railroads were involved, was documented on a separate page in the Pullman Line books (now preserved at the Newberry Library). Whenever a new car route (or Line) was instituted, it would be documented in the corresponding Line book and a new Line number created. If an existing route was altered, this was noted in the appropriate Line book. In addition to sleeping cars, The Pullman Company also owned other car types such as parlor cars, all of which had their own Lines and Line numbers.

In the heavyweight era, the sleeping car capacity (or room accommodation) was rarely identified, but beginning with the early streamlined trains, the capacity of lightweight cars was noted. The car name was often listed if the sleeping car was permanently assigned to a specific train, but the names of "pool" sleepers were not usually shown. Also, more than one car could be assigned to the same route (or Line) if they had the same capacity. After December 31, 1945, when most sleeping cars became railroad-owned and leased to Pullman, the system of route documentation continued to be utilized through the Line books.

Thirdly, the chart on page 37 showing train No. 103, the westward City of Los Angeles, on October 11, 1955, will be more useful once it is amended and the remarks revised as follows:

On the amended chart, the "Car Numbers" are specifically identified, and the appropriate "Lines" and "Line Numbers" have been added for more clarity. The three ‘through' sleepers (two from NY and one from Minneapolis), which maintain their point of origin "Car Numbers," were formerly operated on the Los Angeles Limited, but by January 10, 1954, had been transferred to the COLA. The consist shown is not typical of a late-1955 COLA and is undoubtedly a substitute train hastily assembled by C&NW at Chicago. The Pennsy sleeper was added to this day's COLA consist at Chicago okay, but car Imperial Bird was substituted for the normal 10-6 coming off NYC train No. 59, which was late getting into Chicago. Although there was not enough time to transfer Line 4048's 10-6 sleeping car, arrangements must have been made to move the passengers and their luggage (probably by cab) from LaSalle Street station to the C&NW terminal in time to board the substitute sleeper (note that this car did not ‘miss' its connection with the LA Limited as it was regularly assigned to the COLA by this time). The Minneapolis-LA sleeper and the dome-observation-lounge were added at Omaha.

Finally, the difference between a "Car Number" and a "Line Number" is rather significant and care should be taken to avoid mixing the terminologies. It is hoped the above information will prove helpful to those who have been previously confused or who have been otherwise misusing the terms.

We had a request for information from a UPHS member. If you can help, please do so.

Q420 — WANTED: Any information about the history and operation of the Union Pacific/ C&NW Department of Tours. We are researching this topic to prepare an article or book for publication. Any relevant photos of the tours and/or tour trains, as well as historical information, are needed.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 23, Number 3, Summer 2009

A letter last year from F. Vernon Hudnut and some recent information from Dave Seidel prompts this two-part question:

Q421 — When did UP stop putting train numbers (passenger and/or freight) in locomotive indicators? When did "locomotive indicators" start being "called "number boards" by UP and the railroad industry?

The UPHS is not set up to deal with information on railroad personnel, but occasionally we get an unusual request for help. Thornton Waite passed along the following question from the Harriman State Park in Idaho (see his article in Volume 5, Number 2 of The Streamliner). If you have any thoughts, please contact us.

Q422 — In the 1950s, the Harriman family often spent the summer at their Railroad Ranch in Idaho, and they had a railroad chef cook for them. Chef Frank Moore and his son, Rube Moore, worked together at the ranch at that time. The Harriman State Park has photos of these men at the ranch and would like to do some research on them. Does anyone know who these men were or where they worked the rest of the year?

Don Strack recently unearthed a copy of a February 1959 letter from EMD to UP regarding an "FG9" locomotive.

Q423 — What was the EMD FG9 locomotive? What was its power plant? Did UP have other documents about this project?

A423 — Dave Seidel compiled this partial answer. Readers with more information are urged to contact us.

An item on the blog "Loconotes" from Don Strack provided a copy of a letter between EMD and the UP on the subject of a proposed "FG9" locomotive.

On the "RAILROAD.NET" list, Allen Hazen speculated that the locomotive would have been an application of the FL9 carbody design. The unit would have five axles, as did the FL9 design, with the extra length to handle the extra weight, size and/or power. It was thought this locomotive proposal was to be a dual-fuel gasified power plant of some type, which would require the added carbody length. The idea could have been a side product of the gas turbine designs that the UP had in operation at the time.

Allen Hazen: "I suppose that (after maybe using diesel fuel to get started?) the heavy oil would be gasified before being burned, but what sort of equipment would be used in gasifying it, and whether it would ultimately be burned in a (modified) diesel engine or turbine I don't know. Apparently the ‘free-piston' gasifier idea offered some apparent advantages over ‘conventional' gas turbine engines (one thing I looked at suggested that, since the temperature of the gas turning the turbine would be lower, the turbine blades could be made from a cheaper steel alloy), and probably some disadvantages (don't know what they would have been). But, yes, depending on the size of the plant needed for a respectable output, I can see EMD proposing to install it (at least a prototype) in the FL9 carbody. We know that UP was interested in the possibility of using cheaper fuel oils than standard diesel, so they would have been an obvious candidate to work with EMD on this development."

In the 1958-1960 era, locomotive power on the UP saw steam engines eliminated by diesel and turbine powered locomotives. In talking with retired UP Motive Power Department men, it was common for D.S. Neuhart to work with locomotive builders on projects that would possibly improve locomotive design and operation. In some cases, it would be just general ideas discussed between Neuhart and the builder's design engineers. If the idea had merit, modifications or prototype construction would begin. If the idea had no merit, the project would end.

For whatever reason, the FG9 project never got off the ground. This could have been due to design and cost problems, the better-designed SD24 units delivered that year, or the summer/fall 1959 recession with its effects on railroad business. Also, that year, the railroad had a few problems with the new 8500 HP turbine units that cut down greatly on their efficiency. They were (in time) overcome but could have been a factor in not going forward with the FG9 idea.

One interesting side note to this discussion: It was a common practice for EMD to assign a work order number when a request or order came in from a railroad. This system was used to catalog work on any project within EMD operations. Research of EMD records shows that in the FL9 body type records, one number was assigned but blank — 3196. The sequence of numbers in the FL9 construction records would have had that number assigned about 1958. Could order number 3196 have been the FG9 project?

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 23, Number 4, Fall 2009

Q424 — Our model railroad club is modeling the town of (fill-in your favorite UP city), and we want to model the industries that UP served there in (fill-in your favorite era). Where can we find information about those industries?

A424 — There are several aspects to modeling these industries, and several types of information needed. Who were the industries? What was the terrain and track layout? What did the buildings and other structures look like? There are many sources for this type of information, but here are a few that can be most helpful. Some can be found in libraries and others at railroadiana shows or on-line auctions. The Official Freight Shippers Guide and Directory included a listing of shippers by industry, as well as some information about volume and capacities of mines, cold storage plants, grain elevators, and team tracks. UP published profiles and track maps that show elevations and trackage arrangements, though usually in schematic form. U.S. Geological Survey topographic maps show the area terrain, trackage layout and some buildings. For detailed historic information about buildings, the Sanborn fire insurance maps are a great resource. The Sanborn maps were first issued in 1867 as a means for insurance companies to document their insurance coverage in various cities. They detail the location, size and construction of the buildings and often their use. A large electronic collection of these maps is called "Digital Sanborn Maps, 1867-1970" and is accessible through university and public libraries. The U.S. Library of Congress also holds a full collection. In non-urban areas, many industries that no longer exist can be researched using present-day aerial or satellite photographs, since while the buildings may be destroyed, their foundations are often still present and visible. Internet available satellite and aerial photos are also useful for existing trackage and structures.

Some photo research led to the answer for the next question.

Q425 — The article on diesel painting and lettering in volume 22, number 1 of The Streamliner stated that 9-inch oval "O" lettering was applied to turbine noses beginning in 1959. Was that size lettering applied to any other units, and was circle "O" lettering ever used?

A425 — According to the 9-inch lettering drawing itself, 9-inch lettering was also to be applied to the noses of the Fairbanks-Morse Erie-built A-units, as shown on drawing 352-ST-7518. However, those units were retired in 1960 and 1961, and it is not known whether all received nose lettering. Reader help is needed here. No other use of 9-inch lettering on UP diesels is known.

Regarding circle "O" lettering on noses, this is quite interesting. While the drawings do indeed call out oval "O" lettering only, many E-units have been found to have had 8-inch circle "O" lettering applied to their noses. An exact listing of those units has not been completed. Readers are encouraged to send in references. The photo on page 14 of volume 22, number 1 itself shows two such units. 8-inch lettering was used on the letter boards of passenger cars. Even more interesting are Veranda turbines 62, 65, 71, 72 and 73, which all had 8-inch circle "O" lettering applied to their noses, rather than the 9-inch oval "O" called out on the drawings. No other turbines have been noticed to have had that 8-inch lettering applied. A search has not yet been made investigating the 6-inch lettering applied to F-units, FAs, PAs and E7s.

Another previous issue prompted this question:

Q426 — On page 11 of issue volume 15, number 4 of The Streamliner is a 1922 photo looking southwest from Castle Rock. Across the top of the photo, there appears to be a branch-line heading south along the west side of the Green River. When was that branch built? What was it called? What traffic did it serve? When was it abandoned?

Photo Captions

Turbine 68 shows the typically applied 9-inch oval "O" lettering on its nose. (R.H. Kindig photo, Dick Harley collection)

A bit worse for the wear, turbine 72 clearly shows the 8-inch circle "O" lettering that was applied to its nose. Four other veranda turbines also had similar lettering. (A.J. Wolff photo, Dick Harley collection)

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 25, Number 2, Spring 2011

John Rieschl sent us some very interesting info about the testing of "air raid sirens" on diesels.

Q434 — An "air raid type siren" was installed on some DDA40Xs in 1979-80. Was the siren installed on any DDA40X units besides 6918 and 6924? What did the siren sound like? Are there any recordings of it?

A434 (cont.) — Test No: 172; Make: Fed. Signal Corp.; Type: Air Raid Siren; Units: UP6918, UP6924 (DDA40X), UP1400, UP1402 (SDP35).

Letter: Omaha, 12/10/78, 417-260-01

From: R.P. Neeley

"Told of UP 1400 & UP1402 currently equip with test sirens. Have one of these units at Omaha Shops 1/2/79 to have siren to be removed & applied to UP6915. The other 1400 should be at Omaha Shops 1/9/79 so siren can be removed and applied to UP6905."

Apparently UP6918 and UP6924 were substituted for UP6915 and UP6905 as the units to receive the sirens. John adds:

"The siren on roof is 8" high x 36" wide x 48" deep."

"UP3049 is reported to have a siren type 3-'76 but can't verify that."

Thank you, John. Does any reader have knowledge of a siren on SD40 UP3049?

We didn't hear from anyone regarding dome car fins and Q328 published in the last issue. Is anyone looking at passenger car photos?

Michael Borkon sent an answer to a Green River question (see his article elsewhere in this issue).

Q426 — On page 11 of issue volume 15, number 4 of The Streamliner is a 1922 photo looking southwest from Castle Rock. Across the top of the photo, there appears to be a branch-line heading south along the west side of the Green River. When was that branch built? What was it called? What traffic did it serve? When was it abandoned?

A426 — There have been a number of questions raised about the possibility of a track spur that might have existed on the south bank of the Green River. In fact, in the early 1900s a track was built to gather sand on the south bank. As shown in the track plat from the 1920s, a spur was present known as the "sand spur", and it came off the eastbound main just before the Green River Bridge. By the 1930s, it had been removed and replaced by a new sand spur on the west side of the yard, south of the stock pens. This same spur served the Western Alkali plant as well. Thanks for that info, Michael.

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Questions & Answers by Dick Harley

The Streamliner, Volume 25, Number 3, Summer 2011

(Due to a new editor and a reorganization of UPHS, this issue, Volume 25, Number 3, Summer 2011, was the last Q&A column)

Q435 — I have read that Bunker ‘C' was the fuel for UP's turbines. What was it?

A435 — Bunker ‘C' was the fuel typically used for UP's oil burning steam locomotives. It was a very thick (at room temperature), tarry petroleum residual by-product of the refining process for making kerosene and gasoline. Don Strack posted this information on his UtahRails blog.

"I've been cleaning out a lot of paper files and computer files recently. Among them I found a mimeographed copy of "Operation of 8500-Hp Gas Turbines in Locomotive Service", a paper written in October 1960 by Harold Rees, who at the time was Union Pacific's Chief Mechanical Officer. In one obscure paragraph I found a reference to the type of fuel used in UP's most modern Gas Turbine locomotives. The paragraph shows that the original specification for turbine fuel was for a residual fuel that would flow at a viscosity of 95 SUS at 210 degrees Fahrenheit, and which contained a limited combination of specific chemicals and non-combustible material.

"Using the concept that Google is your friend, I started looking for a definition of what residual fuel was, and what it was not. Union Pacific's turbine fuel specification matches the ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials) standard known as Number 5 fuel oil, also known as Bunker B, a slightly higher grade of residual fuel, one step above Number 6 fuel oil, also known as Bunker C. (Wikipedia: Fuel Oil) Bunker C was commonly used in steam locomotives. As mentioned in Rees' report, burning residual fuel in a gas turbine was different than burning residual fuel in a steam locomotive, and the higher-grade fuel was needed to control the ratio of non-combustible, destructive by-products in the fuel itself. So, why do railroaders and railfans constantly use the name Bunker C to describe the heavy fuel that UP used in some of its locomotives?

"Railroaders are not, and were not, chemists. Many were veterans of the U. S. Navy, where the term "Bunker C" was very common. The black fuel used for the Gas Turbines looked and acted like the black fuel used in ships and in steam locomotives, and they continued to use "Bunker C" as the name of the nasty black, residual fuel that made their daily lives so difficult. And railfans used whatever names the railroaders used. Whatever its real name, railroaders and railfans knew the product as Bunker C."

Thanks, Don. A lot more information about fuel oils can be found at Don's website:

http://www.utahrails.net/up/bunker-c.php

Q436 — When did UP eliminate the "OIL CAR" lettering on the ends of their tank (oil) cars?

A436 — Inspection of Painting, Lettering & Numbering (PL&N) drawings does not give a conclusive answer. It appears that UP's tank car PL&N drawings were changed from Common Standard Roman style lettering to UP Gothic style lettering in early 1940 (based on the O-50-6 PL&N drawing 303-C-6364), a few months after the change to Gothic lettering was started for freight cars in mid-1939. The "OIL CAR" lettering is shown on the Roman style PL&N drawing for the O-50-6, but not on the 1940-issued Gothic style drawing. Does any reader know of a photo of an O-50-6 in Gothic lettering with "OIL CAR" on the end?

All of the UP tank car PL&N drawings were redrawn in April 1944, and none of them have the "OIL CAR" lettering nor any mention of it in their notes. However, no PL&N drawings are currently known for the 1939 to 1944 period, except the O-50-6 drawing.

There are a few photos of UP tank cars with "OIL CAR" in Gothic lettering, so we know it was done to at least some cars. Whether it was by habit and ‘painters' option' or was actually shown on a drawing is unknown. It appears to become less prevalent after WWII, but photos are the only documentation known at this time. References to such photos from you readers would be appreciated.

Q437 — When did the gray paint used on UP covered hoppers change from Harbor Mist Gray to Light Gray? I know that the CH-70-1 class was delivered in UP Freight Car Red in 1940, and that the CH-70-2 class was delivered in Harbor Mist Gray in 1949. What class first received the Light Gray color?

Q438 — I was wondering if your group could answer a question related to the 51000-51499 series flatcars built in Denver, Colorado in 1951 [UP class F-50-15, 500 cars]. The 51000-51499 series flatcars were the feeding stock for modified 53000 series flatcars for early TOFC service. When I looked at one folio sheet, it stated the 53000 series was built with 133 cars in 1957 yet another folio sheet shows the series being 85 cars built in 1964-65. Which one is right or are they both right?

A438 — Both of the folio sheets are right, according to the UP Freight Car Diagrams and listings in the Official Railway Equipment Register (ORER). These are all nominal 40-ft cars with cast steel underframes. Note that there were two "53000 series" of cars: 53500-53634 (135 cars) built in 1957, and 53400-53484 (85 cars) built in 1964-65. According to quantities in the ORERs, it looks like the 53400-484 cars were created from the 53500 series cars, with some of the 53500 series cars going back to the original 51000 series too. By July 1970, all of the 53500 series were gone from the ORER, and there were 387 cars in the 51000-51499 series and 81 cars in the 53400-53484 series. The other 32 cars were presumably retired.

Q439 — In the1950s, what type of truck was used on new UP passenger cars? Did older UP passenger cars get a swap out of trucks at some point in time?

A439 — Pullman Company truck code 41-CUDO-11 trucks were introduced on UP passenger cars with the arrival of the Budd-built "Pacific" series sleepers in late 1949. (The other 4-wheel truck cars built in 1949 had 41-HR-11 trucks.) All UP passenger cars with 4-wheel trucks delivered after 1949 also had 41-CUDO-11 trucks when new, starting with the PSCM-built 44-seat chair cars (5401-5445) in 1950. Of course, not all 41-CUDO-11 trucks were created equal, so we should note that there were construction differences among those trucks.

Some earlier cars did receive the 41-CUDO-11 trucks in swap outs in the mid-to-late 1950s and 1960s. You'll need to check photos to verify which cars. There may be shop records of those changes. Do any readers know about such records?

A great article by Pat Wider about lightweight passenger car trucks appears in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia — volume 6.

For those that don't know, 41-CUDO-11 means: 4-wheel, single bolster — 9'-0" wheelbase, 14-1/16" wide journal pedestal (unique to UP), Disc brakes, Outside swing hanger — 6x11" axle journals.

(Due to a new editor and a reorganization of UPHS, this issue, Volume 25, Number 3, Summer 2011, was the last Q&A column)

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